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Thread: Who are you calling unsustainable Mr Clyne?

  1. #196
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Thanks Lou. I'm more convinced than ever that this bloke and at least some of the other board members are not up to speed on the job they are supposed to be doing. Looks a very lazy effort. How in heck did Harlequins get him to a Q & A session? The corporate costs comparison alone say plenty.

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  2. #197
    Champion SinBin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lou View Post
    Now lets look at corporate costs: In 2016, the ARU corporate costs are 11.4% of turnover, a cool $14.6 m while NZRU corporate costs only amount to 6.3%, $9.5 m. It begs that question that if it is possible to run the ARU on $5 m less we could save a team!
    Thanks for sharing Lou - stronger as 5!

    We can only dream of a journo/editor having the balls to publish that data, plus the grass roots investment comparison. The headline could read something like:

    ARU corporate cost increase funded by cutting investment in grass roots

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  3. #198
    Player lou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Thanks Lou. I'm more convinced than ever that this bloke and at least some of the other board members are not up to speed on the job they are supposed to be doing. Looks a very lazy effort. How in heck did Harlequins get him to a Q & A session? The corporate costs comparison alone say plenty.
    He played for that club when he worked in Melbourne back in the day

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  4. #199
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    I like Lou

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  5. #200
    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lou View Post
    He played for that club when he worked in Melbourne back in the day
    "when he worked in Melbourne" or "when he was employed in Melbourne"?

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  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by lou View Post
    Now lets look at corporate costs: In 2016, the ARU corporate costs are 11.4% of turnover, a cool $14.6 m while NZRU corporate costs only amount to 6.3%, $9.5 m. It begs that question that if it is possible to run the ARU on $5 m less we could save a team!
    Yeah, i remember when this was "discussed" or more like shot down by ARU mole TWAS on GAGR. The only excuse ever given for why we spend so much more of a percentage of almost equal income on management is "scales of economy". Scales of economy would apply if we are comparing a $100 million company to a $500 million company but not when comparing companies of equal size, naturally a larger more established company would require less percentage of income to operate management. Why the ARU needs to be spending so much more on head office is anyones guess. Why the ARU needs a staff of 240 to run head office is anyones guess. How much are they going to spend decking out their new headquarters when they move is anyones guess. Why they cannot restructure administration to find any possible savings is anyones guess. Why they cannot centralise duplicated services and costs from the franchises and collaborate with the franchises on development is anyones guess. Where the extra $30 million in income they received last year from broadcasters went is anyones guess. Why they think they can save Australian rugby by running a year long campaign of reduction and destruction is anyones guess. How they managed to get themselves into 2 legal standoffs with 2 franchises is anyones guess. Why is it so difficult to obtain ARU financial reports and decipher them is anyones guess. Why proper development structures were not set up off the back of the 1999 RWC win to benefit rugby into the future and start to look at national expansion and growth is anyones guess. Ditto for 2003, a year before expansion was to occur. Ditto for 2007 and 2011. Why the ARU placed a half million dollar bet on the 2015 RWC final is anyones guess.

    Lou, i know you're from Melbourne and i don't want this to become a Melbourne vs Perth thing. Im in support of Melbourne having a professional rugby program and being developed into a new pathway for more people to participate in rugby. Im also not sure how privy to some information you are but i have some genuine questions about the Rebels franchise.
    Firstly, can the Rebels be stabilized financially? We know you guys have had some goings on around private ownership and needing ARU support, but can the Rebels finances be stabilized to shore up their position going forward?
    Secondly, how is development of the Dewar Shield competition going?
    Thirdly, with the Victorian government stepping in to to provide $2 million a year in assistance, how is that going stabilize the franchise financially? With the Rebels average financial losses being in the vicinity of $4.75 million a year, that still leaves a shortfall of $2.75 million a year. Is there a plan to cover this shortfall?
    Fourthly, how can the Rebels win over wider Melbourne and build its membership base? With so much competition for participants from a crowded market, how will they grow their supporter base?

    Like i said, these questions are from the viewpoint that all 5 franchises survive and we build towards a better future for Australian rugby.

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  7. #202
    Veteran valzc's Avatar
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    I've also noticed Kala that TWAS seems to have disappeared from the forums of late. It seemed to coincide with the last game the Force thrashed the Tahs and Twiggy's announcement...hmmm interesting. Him being an ARU mole as was oft accused rings true - perhaps he was actually Day, as he seemed to know a bit about the figures of the ARU?

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  8. #203
    (Previously WFDS) WFDom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valzc View Post
    I've also noticed Kala that TWAS seems to have disappeared from the forums of late. Him being an ARU mole as was oft accused rings true - perhaps he was actually Day, as he seemed to know a bit about the figures of the ARU?
    Couldn't have been him Val, his user name would have been TWAT!

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    Great game, Fucken battled right through to the 80!

  9. #204
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahard View Post
    Why the ARU needs to be spending so much more on head office is anyones guess. Why the ARU needs a staff of 240 to run head office is anyones guess..
    I couldn't find where you got that figure (240 staff) from. Are you sure that's right? The NRL ran with a HQ staff of around 100 according to figures in a staff survey done in 2015. Also when I googled for that figure I noticed their full annual reports are publicly available in PDF for no fee. As are those of the AFL and FFA.

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  10. #205
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    I thought TWAS was a member of ROAR forums.

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  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    I thought TWAS was a member of ROAR forums.
    Yes that is where I've seen his rather numerous and highly irritating comments!!

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  12. #207
    Champion MI5_Dog's Avatar
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    TWAS is a rabid Reds supporter who attempts to appear neutral by offering a counter argument to just about everything that's posted on the Roar.
    Unfortunately a lot of his arguments fall under the same logical fallacies he attempts to point out.
    His general recalcitrance makes him appear as a bit of a nob.

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  13. #208
    Player lou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahard View Post
    Firstly, can the Rebels be stabilized financially? We know you guys have had some goings on around private ownership and needing ARU support, but can the Rebels finances be stabilized to shore up their position going forward?
    Secondly, how is development of the Dewar Shield competition going?
    Thirdly, with the Victorian government stepping in to to provide $2 million a year in assistance, how is that going stabilize the franchise financially? With the Rebels average financial losses being in the vicinity of $4.75 million a year, that still leaves a shortfall of $2.75 million a year. Is there a plan to cover this shortfall?
    Fourthly, how can the Rebels win over wider Melbourne and build its membership base? With so much competition for participants from a crowded market, how will they grow their supporter base?

    Like i said, these questions are from the viewpoint that all 5 franchises survive and we build towards a better future for Australian rugby.
    Thanks for the questions here are my answers:
    1. Yes, all the franchises can be financially sustainable - there are three main revenue streams: Sponsorships, Memberships & match day receipts and the ARU player payments. Any CFO worth his CPA would know that this is the starting point for the spending budget. Rough back of the envelope figures suggest: Sponsorships $2.5 m, Memberships $3m + ARU base payments $5.8m = $11.3 m. Can we run a SR franchise on $11.3 m - or $5.5 m net of player salaries ? - by holy crap we can and some franchises can earn more sponsorships and others more memberships.
    2. Dewer Shield standard of the competition has improved dramatically ever since the joint decision by the VRU and the Rebels in 2014 to insist that Rebels squad members not in the match day 23 should play in the Dewer Shield. Prior to that, those players would leave Melbourne to play club rugby in Sydney. Each club is assigned 4 or 5 players and on some weekends up to 15 players might be playing in the local competition. This coupled with significant coaching investment by the VRU has lifted the standard of the entire competition. Most importantly the Rebels players love playing in local club rugby in Melbourne.
    3. Depending on how much they commit to it would underpin the remainder of the season until actual sponsors could be raised and new memberships for 2018 could be signed up. They have undertaken to invest in a local rugby centre of excellence for Victoria… a home for Victorian rugby - which I am sure would be cancelled if the rugby mat in this state were to be pulled by the ARU.
    4. Yes, Home grown talent builds home grown support (I thought you would know that) We have seven local players in the immediate squad and nine in the extended squad. The local community will support their home grown talent (but they are not too keen to put their money in the pockets of a money hungry kiwi)

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    Last edited by lou; 03-08-17 at 20:18.

  14. #209
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    Allison, I know you love your research, so here's what some of my research uncovered in the 2016 ARU annual accounts. The notes to the accounts state that funding to Super Rugby expenses increased by $13 m made up of Super Rugby team costs of $8.1 m, an increase of $4.8 m (predominantly travel costs) resulting from the expanded Super Rugby competition.
    I decided to compare the 2015 /2016 schedules. For Melbourne Rebels, in 2015 we played 8 home games and 8 away games - of these, four were domestic, two were in NZ and two were in SA. I suppose all Aussie teams had a similar schedule that year.
    Then, in 2016 Rebels played 7 home games and 8 away games, four domestic, two in NZ, one in SA and one in Japan. So the only difference was Japan instead of SA and one less home game - not sure how this could cost so much more at an average of $960,000 per franchise assuming it was evenly spread. I will look up the changes for each of the Aussie franchises later today, but you would probably know off the top of your head what your schedule was in 2016. Another thing I will look at later today is what the increased SR team costs were in NZ and if they did change from 2015 to 2016. Anyway, more things to think about.

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  15. #210
    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    In 2016, we had 3 away games in NZ (all in a row so, possibly same trip), 3 domestic away, 1 to SA and 1 to Japan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Super_Rugby_season

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