Who are you calling unsustainable Mr Clyne?

[Alison]

The mod is saying that? What an arse. It's based on the ARU's own financial statements for heaven's sake! If they want to get their own copies of them they can go to asic.gov.au and pay $38 a set to download them like I did if they want to. Then they can each spend two solid weekends like I did trying to identify something resembling truth and fact from the smoke and mirrors and pages of opacity!!

[sandgroperrugby]

The mod is saying that? What an arse. It's based on the ARU's own financial statements for heaven's sake! If they want to get their own copies of them they can go to asic.gov.au and pay $38 a set to download them like I did if they want to. Them they can each spend two solid weekends like I did trying to identify something resembling truth and fact from the smoke and mirrors and pages of opacity!!

Alison why oh why would they ever do that. It's easier to troll on websites then speak with a modicum of truth or accuracy. It a bit like climate change, anything trumps says and to be honest most things political.

The later is what the ARU stinks of. Politics and insider sources and with old boys club ties.

[valzc]

The mod is saying that? What an arse. It's based on the ARU's own financial statements for heaven's sake! If they want to get their own copies of them they can go to asic.gov.au and pay $38 a set to download them like I did if they want to. Them they can each spend two solid weekends like I did trying to identify something resembling truth and fact from the smoke and mirrors and pages of opacity!!

They have no other argument with which to fight!

[FingerTips]

...
The later is what the ARU stinks of. Politics and insider sources and with old boys club ties.

The ARU and its fellow travellers were made for the new era of Alternative Facts and Fake News.

[Transiting]

Alison I wonder if the ARU's (Clyne and Pulver) public statements on the ARU's financial position when they knew they couldn't support a fifth team, yet don't mention it in their reports and went ahead with it, and publicly state they will spend more on Super Rugby, would be considered misleading, in particular to ASIC?

Maybe something to pass to the legal beagles!

[Alison]

Alison I wonder if the ARU's (Clyne and Pulver) public statements on the ARU's financial position when they knew they couldn't support a fifth team, yet don't mention it in their reports and went ahead with it, and publicly state they will spend more on Super Rugby, would be considered misleading, in particular to ASIC?

Maybe something to pass to the legal beagles!

Yeah I dunno. As it's not a listed company I doubt ASIC would worry too much.

I think the bigger issue is did Cox know that the ARU had already decided 5 teams was unsustainable before he took over the Rebels?

If yes and he was still happy to take them over, was he told by the ARU that they intended to ensure it was the Force that got the chop and so his money was 100% safe?

If no, would he have grounds to sue them for obfuscation? Dunno.

Either way, the ARU's gross mismanagement of the game of rugby in Australia since the sport went professional is staggering.

The ARU are still like the old farts at the RFU that Will Carling slammed years ago.

The management of the AFL, NRL and the A League have left them standing, and who suffers because of that? We do. We who worship at the altar of rugby have been badly let down by an organisation stuck in the dark ages in terms of its thinking but who are happy to take modern day salaries that Gordon Gekko would be proud of and then bugger off into the sunset to run some other hapless organisation.

Shame on them. I can't tell you how much I hate what they have done to such a noble game as ours!!

[lou]

this is an awesome analysis and I am going to add to it in due course

[GIGS20]

If yes and he was still happy to take them over, was he told by the ARU that they intended to ensure it was the Force that got the chop and so his money was 100% safe?

Seriously? If the guy's that concerned about protecting his one dollar investment I can give him the buck with interest for him to piss off and let the real rugby supporters have a go.

[Alison]

Seriously? If the guy's that concerned about protecting his one dollar investment I can give him the buck with interest for him to piss off and let the real rugby supporters have a go.

I was thinking more of the money he would be investing in the club after the takeover i.e. as its ongoing benefactor.

[GIGS20]

I was thinking more of the money he would be investing in the club after the takeover i.e. as its ongoing benefactor.

I think you need to read this really good thread around here someplace called something something unsustainable. It makes a pretty good case that the ARU has been the Rebels ongoing benefactor and Cox is really just a puppet (but he seems to be the one with his hand up the ARU's ass)

Can't remember who wrote it, but it's a bloody interesting read!

[lou]

Thought you'd like to read this: this is the gist of the Q & A that was held at Harlequins Melbourne on Saturday with Patsy Cam Clyne as posed by ex-Melbourne Rebels CEO Peter Leahy:
The general consensus from the audience was that they did not come away feeling comfortable with the prognosis for the Rebels.

There were three themes to the questions: (i) Process, (ii) Strategy and (iii) Finance. In summary:

* Process. Clyne was asked how after saying it would take 72 hours to finalise some 100 days ago, this was still dragging on. He said that the franchises were all in favour of reducing to 4 teams but then changed their minds. He gave no evidence of this. He would not answer the question as to when the board formed this view. When asked if he had his time again would they have done anything differently, he again avoided the question. Likewise when it was suggested perhaps it would have been best to have done this after the season was over and that by doing it after round 4 or 5 it impacted the performance of all the Australian teams as it was a distraction for not just the Rebels & Force but for all teams. He would not accept this and said Australia had a culture of blame and not taking ownership...whilst not seeing the irony of himself blaming the franchises for dragging out the 72 hours to 4 months!

* Strategy: Clyne was asked how shrinking the footprint could be a catalyst for growth. He is convinced we don't have the talent pool to support 5 teams and believes all the coaches believe that to be the case as well (didn't mentioned they also believe they should all be on the eastern seaboard). He believes that as we have continually increased our teams from 3 to 4 to 5 our performance of Australian teams has declined. It was pointed out that in the first 15 years of Super Rugby we won 2 titles. In the first 5 years of having 5 teams (ie first 5 years of Rebels) we won 2 titles. It was also pointed out that if the Rebels were cut then the pathway for the likes for Jordan, Sione, Fereti and Rob would be blocked and we would be back to the bad old days of our local talent leaving the state in their teens to pursue their pathway....at a time when our U/20s are ranked 2nd or 3rd in the country. His response was appalling...."I'm not saying there won't be some unfortunate consequences from this decision".....in other words...tough!

Clyne was asked why the Brumbies were in and then out. The question was asked about what the decision criteria was as we had never seen it. Basically he said that because the Brumbies had won two titles, has been the most successful Aussie team and had not required a bail out, they deserved a spot. Missed the point that they had been beneficiaries of substantially higher Wallaby tops than us and in recent years had not produced the talent locally that they did 20 years ago. One of the questioners rightly pointed out that this was a backwards looking view of strategy and surely the decision should be based on where the greatest growth potential was..a city of 400,000 with no commercial base or a city heading to 5,000,000 and soon to be the biggest city in Australia.

* Finance: Clyne was asked to talk to the finance business case for shutting down a franchise. He parroted back the same "saving" of $6m. When he was asked what were the costs of shutting down a team (players contracts & commercial arrangements that need to be severed), he would not quantify these and said that these were "one offs". Clyne was then asked if their cost benefit analysis had taken into consideration the costs of leaving a jurisdiction and gave the example of Rugby League exiting WA 20 years ago. Again, no real answer. In case he didn't get the hint, it was pointed out in the closing remarks that the ARU has made over $130m from Victorian tax payers and sports patrons over the last 20 years. In other word, if you shut down the Rebels, the Victorian Government will wipe their hands of you which will cost you millions.

Clyne was asked what other options were considered to save costs like looking at the NZ model of centralised contracting. He said this was looked at and didn't stack up...again no further detail. He said no one had come forward with a better financial model to support 5 teams.

On a number of occasions, Clyne kept mentioning the unbudgeted costs of $28m to support Super Rugby franchises in the last 7 years and the $11m in unbudgeted "additional" support to the Rebels since inception. He did not acknowledge that this does not include the Wallaby top ups that the Reds, Waratahs & Brumbies get as opposed to what the Force and Rebels get. A true like for like comparison of ARU support has to include these numbers or it is deliberately misleading.

In summary, the audience did not get a good feeling. He is not across what is happening with grass roots here. Did not know our numbers had doubled since the Rebels arrived. Did not appreciate that our U/20s were ranked as high as they were and that we had 5 in the Aussie U/20s. Did not really appreciate what Hendo and others have done with the likes of Jordan, Sione, Rob, Fereti and many other. Also the social dislocation consequences most prevalent when the boys are forced to leave their families to pursue their Rugby careers..as would be the case if the Rebels shut down. Most tellingly he did not know that there was no Victorian university team in the Australian women's sevens competition announced just 24 hours earlier.

[jono]

Cheers Lou. I read that on GAGR last night. Very telling stuff.

[lou]

Here is a little bit of other analysis that you might be interested in:
The ARU spends less than half the level New Zealand spends on grass roots development. From a peak of $15.75 m in 2006, over the last six years ARU spending on grass roots has dropped from $9.35 in 2011 to $5.66 m in 2015, increasing in 2016 to $9.8 m.
During the same time frame, NZRU spend on grass roots rugby has gone from $16.9 m in 2011 (in AUD adjusted dollars) to a high of $26.1 m in 2016 – a straight upward trajectory (except for 2015 where they dipped to $19.6m).
As a percent of turnover, ARU spend 7.6% of its $128.6 m in 2016 while NZRU spend 17.2% of its $151.5 m.

[lou]

Now lets look at corporate costs: In 2016, the ARU corporate costs are 11.4% of turnover, a cool $14.6 m while NZRU corporate costs only amount to 6.3%, $9.5 m. It begs that question that if it is possible to run the ARU on $5 m less we could save a team!

[Alison]

Great post Lou! More eveidence that Clone, Puller et al should be ashamed of themselves and what they have done to the game that we, the long-forgotten fans that pay for their champagne, super yachts and houses on Sydney harbour, love so much.

They probably went to the same school as the Sydney lawyers who are now filling their pockets with our money too.