Force v Sharks

[palitu]

Let's forget last nights performance - David Wessel's face said it all. All I'd like to remember is Verity-Amm's turn of pace for that try... he's quick!

It was really nice to see an excellently executed back line move, with the person getting the ball having some wheels to burn off the opposition.

[BeeJay]

My two cents worth

1) Grant seemed uninterested in the main
2) yes we certainly miss DHP
3) was Adam underdone or still not fully fit?
4) God those South African boys are huge!!
5) scrum performed really well even when Vui and Van Wyk entered the fray
6) Short had a good debut
7) Small errors at important times will cost us, like Jono Lance's failed kick on half time, and the umpteen times we were in their 22 with no points
8) Rona and Meakes very solid
9) Naisarini likewise
10) we just have no idea in attack after several phases in the 22
11) can we please please work on contestable kicks at kickoff and in ope play AND ACTUALLY CONTEST??!!!

[andrewg]

Ruck Involvements – Sharks v Force

Remember:
1. Early means 1st or 2nd of player’s team AFTER the ball carrier has been tackled and brought to ground.
2. Impact means active engagement: strong physical contact, changed shape of ruck, clean-out, protecting ball etc. (more than hand on someone’s bum or arriving after the hard work has been done). Yes it’s subjective - but as I collect all data at least it’s consistent.
3. Impact DOES NOT equate to Effectiveness. I’ve concluded that coming up with an effectiveness measure is just too hard in the time that I have available – but open to suggestions.






Brief comments:

1. Force had 56% Possession & Territory - enough for a better outcome.
2. Force had 38 Handling Errors (SR average 15) and 26 Missed Tackles (Tackling at only 76%).
3. Penalty Count: Sharks 4: 10 Force
4. Rucks Won: Sharks 97%: 95% Force
5. Force stood off 53% of Defensive Rucks and had 2 Turn Overs Won (Hodgo, Rona).
6. Naisarani, Hodgson & Meakes had 40% of the Def Ruck Involvements.
7. Best Tacklers: Hodgo 14; Naisarani & Lance 12; Meakes & Rona 8.
8. Best Ruck Involvements by Backs: Rona & Meaks as above; Brache - 12T - 9A/3D;
9. Starting Front Row a bit subdued in Ruck Involvements.
10. Big uplift in Ruck Involvements in the 2nd half – especially from Carmichael, Van Wyk, Hardwick & Vui who made their presence felt. Some big numbers in the final 10 minutes. Naisarani was impressive.

Update of Ruck Involvements by OSF & Back Rowers after Round 11

1. Hodgson seems to get little recognition for another "average" performance. It's just that his average presents a lot more than other OSF.
2. Smith was being very selective with his ruck involvements.
3. Like the work rate and energy of Will Miller but at only 88kg it's hard to have the impact of other OSF. A limpet when on the ball early.
4. Hooper was mostly missing in the 1st half - only 6 ruck involvements. (Had only 7 in the 1st half prev week against the Reds)

[GIGS20]

Re Force standing off defensive rucks, I thought that they were making better decisions about when to commint and when not to.

I don't believe there's any point sticking your head into a ruck which is already lost and likely to have quick ball coming out of it. It only ties you up with the oppostion holding you into the ruck and leaves a gap somewhere in the line.

Sharks were supporting the ball carrier really well, leaving very few opportunities for us to be first to the ruck.

I just had another look at your stats, and that is borne out by our "early" rate, we're normally a lot higher on that metric.

[BeeJay]

Re Force standing off defensive rucks, I thought that they were making better decisions about when to commint and when not to.

I don't believe there's any point sticking your head into a ruck which is already lost and likely to have quick ball coming out of it. It only ties you up with the oppostion holding you into the ruck and leaves a gap somewhere in the line.

Sharks were supporting the ball carrier really well, leaving very few opportunities for us to be first to the ruck.

I just had another look at your stats, and that is borne out by our "early" rate, we're normally a lot higher on that metric.

I think the Sharks got wise to that, and when it was clear we were not committing too many to the rucks, they took several opportunities to counter ruck and turn over the pill. We need to be thinking all the time and altering these judgements as the game progresses.

We are also guilty of what so many other Aussie teams do - when the halfback is caught in the ruck or otherwise engaged, it takes half an age for someone else to simply clear and pass from the base of the ruck. Invariably a turnover opportunity arises for the opposition....

[GIGS20]

Good points BJ

I'm beginning to agree with most of the wankers who call themselves experts on TV, we're too structured and unable to play instinctive rugby.

The Kiwis are obviously the best at the world at that, so that when they do put structure into what they do it's more of a suggestion, but to be beaten at instinctive rugby by South Africa and (even worse) England signals the need for drastic changes.

This is not only a symptom of problems with the Force, I think it probably needs to be fixed in under 10s!

[DazloT]

They did seem to revert to ingrained training at times, particularly on attack in the 22.
I had to laugh when the way they lined up in a flat line across the field when we were 10 meters out looked exactly the same as my young fellas under 6s team just that morning. The only difference being the Force didn't have to be herded into position!

Where was the players running onto the ball at pace, dummy running, multiple players moving to give the defense something to think about? Prior was not getting the ball out quick enough and is trying to direct play too much, Mitch Short made a big difference (forgetting the mistakes) to the pace of the game when he came on, just like Louwrens and Ruru do. I think that has been one of the reasons for the visible improvement when watching our attack.

[GIGS20]

Apart from the one BEA-U-TIFUL set piece move which opened the line up for the Verity-Amm try.

not really an example of instinctive attacking play. Shaun Berne probably had them practising that one for three weeks before unleashing it this weekend.

[andrewg]

Re Force standing off defensive rucks, I thought that they were making better decisions about when to commint and when not to.

I don't believe there's any point sticking your head into a ruck which is already lost and likely to have quick ball coming out of it. It only ties you up with the opposition holding you into the ruck and leaves a gap somewhere in the line.

Sharks were supporting the ball carrier really well, leaving very few opportunities for us to be first to the ruck.

I just had another look at your stats, and that is borne out by our "early" rate, we're normally a lot higher on that metric.

Agree.....it's all about timing and impact of the support (whether in support of your own ball carrier or to stop your pilferer getting cleaned out) - which is why I started recording the "early" numbers.

On placing pressure on the opposition ball carrier all players should know how to pilfer - especially if they can be the 1st after the tackler. I know that at least Prior and Ruru have been getting extra coaching from Hodgo in this area and, based on recent TOW, probably Rona.
Though small Burton has an impact in this area due to his speed and technique.

But ruck involvement is better with bulk in support which is why I've been harping on the lack of involvement from Aussie SR and Wallaby Tight 5s lack of support in rucks.

There is no preferred or ideal level of ruck involvement as it will depend upon what presents.

In his OSF role Hodgo is a master at standing off when it's pointless to get involved.
But he'll still enter the fray if it gives his team a chance to organise their defence.

The "early" % certainly shows those who are running support for the ball carriers (e.g. Hardwick, RHP & Carmichael) and those who provide the bulk when required (e.g. Faulkner, van Wyk, Coleman, Naisarani).

We lost a lot of ball to the Sharks - or had to add extra bulk - when we were caught with only Backs providing the early support.

[Tazzmania]

Seven Force players in Rugby.com.au's Australian team of the week.

1. **Toby Smith
It was a tough day for the Rebels but Toby Smith put in a solid performance in his first start after a serious hamstring injury. In just his second game of the season, Smith brought plenty of much-needed experience to the Rebels pack, and it showed in his combination with Laurie Weeks and James Hanson.
2. Tolu Latu
Latu continues to lead the way when it comes to hookers in Australian rugby. Scored a try that helped spark the Waratahs’ comeback against the Blues and was a threat at scrum time.
3. Tetera Faulkner
Faulkner continued his consistent 2017 against the Sharks, packing down at tighthead. The Force pack has been one of Australia’s most solid this season and he is a major part of that.
4. Will Skelton
The Waratahs found themselves in a 26-0 hole at half-time on saturday and Will Skelton’s injection into the game was a big part in changing that. Skelton made 40 run metres, the most of any Waratahs forward and finally showed glimpses of the threat the Waratahs want him to be.
5. Dom Day
Welsh international Dominic Day has found his way with the Rebels after some injury troubles hampered his start to the year. The 31-year-old was a force in defence against the Lions.
6. Brynard Stander
Brynard Stander shook off injury troubles to be among the best for the Force in their clash with the Sharks. Stander ran for 69 metres, had 13 carries and a linebreak on a difficult day out.
7. Will Miller
When it comes to the step up between Shute Shield and Super Rugby, Will Miller has had no trouble breaching the gulf, in another stellar performance. Twelve tackles and three turnovers showed his impact in defence, again stepping up in the absence of Colby Faingaa (quad).
8. Amanaki Mafi
If it weren’t for Amanaki Mafi, the Rebels would be in an even bigger abyss than they find themselves in now. The Japan international had another influential performance at the back of the scrum, making 50 run metres, 10 tackles and causing three turnovers. Not bad at all.
9. James Tuttle
James Tuttle has battled hard after being thrown in the deep end this year, but he seems to have no trouble swimming. The 21-year-old was consistent again under immense pressure in New Plymouth.
10. Jono Lance
Jono Lance made the most of his return to the Force starting team on Saturday night, with an impressive stats sheet either side of the ball. He made 70 run metres and beat three defenders in Durban, also finishing with 12 tackles and a turnover.
11. James Verity-Amm
A debut Super Rugby try in Durban in just your second game? We’d take that any day. The youngster showed his X-factor against the Sharks and a glimpse of his long-term potential.
12. Bill Meakes
Bill Meakes’s abrasive style is winning him plenty of fans and he showed glimpses of that again against the Sharks, also helping set up Verity-Amm’s spectacular try.
13. Curtis Rona
His rugby stint might only last a year but Curtis Rona is making the most of whatever time he has at the Force. The outside back formed part of the Force’s promising backline, making 40 run metres and eight tackles and won two turnovers.
14. Marika Koroibete
Marika Koroibete says he has no regrets in his code switch, but it’s probably the Rebels who have more to thank him for than the other way around. The former NRL winger showed his progress in defence, especially, on Saturday. Made 48 run metres and finished with nine tackles, the equal-highest of any Rebels back, including a sensational try-saver.
15. Israel Folau
Israel Folau broke his try-scoring rut on Saturday night, collecting a double in the process. While he’s still not at his best, his finishing is the first step in getting back to the player he has been.

[sittingbison]

...Welsh international Dominic Day has found his way with the Rebels after some injury troubles hampered his start to the year. The 31-year-old was a force in defence against the Lions.

Score? Pun intended??

[agrugger]

I finally got a chance to watch it last night and I think it was our most disappointing performance. Mostly because (like some have said), the lack of enthusiasm and desire across the pitch. The Sharks just seemed to want it more. The bright spot for me was the continued improvement in set piece moves. We have scored several tries this season off lineouts or scrums and this week we scored one and made significant meters in on a few others.

I am curious if Wessles has told them to tone down the offloads. They don't seem to be even looking to offload anymore.

And the lack of ruck involvement from the front row is ridiculous. I'm ok if TPN stands on the wing like Dane Coles if the other blokes are going to pick up the slack. But when the reserves engage more rucks (39 vs 47) in less than half the mins (164 vs 76); that's a joke. I know Pek is a life-long Force, but if he's going to struggle in the scrum (get a couple of penalties a game) and does not get engaged in rucks, then what is he doing out there.

[GIGS20]

Good point about Pek, but I think it was more a case of him (and the ref) being played by the opposition. I saw a lot of binding on the arm and pushing down, I saw a lot of both props crouching with shoulders below hips and I saw a lot of turning in (Pek wasn't completely innocent, but it was later in the game, so possibly just responding to the ref not making a call)

The one time I saw the scrum push straight with good height and no funny business, Pek destroyed the boy, so I think there was a definite strategy of utilizing a preconceived attitude in the ref to their advantage.

And then on several occasions Pek got it plainly wrong, which made it hard to dig himself out of the notion that the ref had formed.

[PJ43]

Totally agree with your two cents worth BJ

Add two more:

12) Brache keeps dropping the ball in contact - even sometimes with no contact. There is nothing that kills momentum and enthusiasm more.
13) Verity Am is FAST!!!! Give him the ball and let him run.

Adam needs match fitness. Will be better for the run.

[GIGS20]

Seven Force players in Rugby.com.au's Australian team of the week.

Surprised that 4 of them were backs.

I haven't watched the other games, so I can't comment on other teams but it's a bit of a surprise that Jono's there, I didn't think he was at his best. THe praise for the Force scrum is interesting, because the penalty count at scrum time would tell a different story, maybe everybody else got towelled up worse.

No surprise to see Verity-Amm get the nod, he looked right at home there.

Curtis Rona would count himself lucky wouldn't he? the cost of that yellow card (fair or not, he got it) wasn't really outweighed by a mountain of classy running, I would rate his overall performance as workmanlike, but not really special.

Billy Meakes has spent the whole season playing workmanlike Hitting the line hard in both attack and defense, He looked a lot closer to what I expect of him than most of our backline this week.

So my question to those who actually watched any game that the Force didn't play this week. Am I looking through s^&t coloured glasses or did every other aussie team have that much worse a day than us?