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Thread: Force set to be axed

  1. #616
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiraag View Post
    Best possible outcome from here is that RugbyWA / WA government wins a damages case against the ARU, causing bankrupcy. These extra funds effectively puts RugbyWA into the position of being the national body, and they take over the ARU duties.

    With a WA centric ARU, the game can be administered truly nationally without the Qld and NSW "heartland" bias, supporting grassroots rugby in all states, requiring KPI's to be met for any grants and funding, a super rugby structure that is fair to all with a meaningful salary cap (not the skewed one with wallaby top ups we have now), a national draft, etc.
    A proper independent analysis can be done into how best to proceed with the professional game in Australia (super rugby, a national competition, pacific competition, etc.).
    Overhead costs can be dramatically slashed at the national level and at each super rugby team where common services are currently duplicated.
    ...and so on.

    Never going to happen, but a man can dream.....
    Enter Andrew Forrest. .........Cometh the hour cometh the man . You may not be far off with this dream.

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  3. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Edwards View Post
    Enter Andrew Forrest. .........Cometh the hour cometh the man . You may not be far off with this dream.
    Are we talking somethingalong the lines of world series cricket/Kerry Packer style. New teams new format. Im sure it would bring in the crowds and tv. Just think what big bash has done..

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  4. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrycobner View Post
    Are we talking somethingalong the lines of world series cricket/Kerry Packer style. New teams new format. Im sure it would bring in the crowds and tv. Just think what big bash has done..
    It doesn't need to be that different TerryCobner, just fix the shambolic schedule and make the finals series reflect the dominance of the teams, rather than giving South Africa a virtual golden ticket to the final while Australia takes it up the kyber

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  5. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Edwards View Post
    Enter Andrew Forrest. .........Cometh the hour cometh the man . You may not be far off with this dream.
    A few of us are ordinary, garden variety, off the shelf mug punters who for the past 12 years have dutifully handed over our subs for Diamond or Gold Memberships of the Western Force.

    Please guys, don't mess with our heads by continually raising false expectations.
    If you know something specific or are 100% certain of an outcome, then please let us know. Otherwise, it may be better to say nothing at this stage of proceedings.

    I, for one, have had too many disappointments over the past few months (and the past few days in particular).

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  6. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by FingerTips View Post
    A few of us are ordinary, garden variety, off the shelf mug punters who for the past 12 years have dutifully handed over our subs for Diamond or Gold Memberships of the Western Force.

    Please guys, don't mess with our heads by continually raising false expectations.
    If you know something specific or are 100% certain of an outcome, then please let us know. Otherwise, it may be better to say nothing at this stage of proceedings.

    I, for one, have had too many disappointments over the past few months (and the past few days in particular).
    Agreed, but I'd like to add the warning (which I'm sure John is quite aware of) that tipping your hand too early could easily lose this game.

    The stakes couldn't be higher at the moment, and I'd be completely OK with a commitment from Twiggy that if it takes bankrupting the national union to save the Force, he's willing to do it but please, no false hope that the courts are locked in. The case is being heard in NSW and logic just seems a little different over there, as evidenced by the outcome of the alliance arbitration.

    Please please please, don't let it go to some secretive bullshit this time unless that carries with it a guarantee for the Force in perpetuity for any provincial competition.

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  7. #622
    Champion andrewM's Avatar
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    A couple of things are puzzling me. Remember Georgina Robinson's article in the SMH in March I think it was saying that the Force was going to be axed? Was Stooke the leak - or is there another?

    Another thing, I haven't read the constitution of the ARU, but I would have thought that the minutes of board meetings would be made available to RugbyWA and the other unions? I thought that the ARU had a federation model constitution - the powers it holds are those that its constituent unions have agreed it to, and that, like pretty much all not-for-profit organisations, any member can ask at any time to be shown the books and minutes?

    Surely these would have alerted the teams that something was in the pipeline?

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  8. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewM View Post
    A couple of things are puzzling me. Remember Georgina Robinson's article in the SMH in March I think it was saying that the Force was going to be axed? Was Stooke the leak - or is there another?

    Another thing, I haven't read the constitution of the ARU, but I would have thought that the minutes of board meetings would be made available to RugbyWA and the other unions? I thought that the ARU had a federation model constitution - the powers it holds are those that its constituent unions have agreed it to, and that, like pretty much all not-for-profit organisations, any member can ask at any time to be shown the books and minutes?

    Surely these would have alerted the teams that something was in the pipeline?
    It all depends what was minuted, what was actually passed at board level and what was just water cooler talk between Qld and NSW.

    Don't forget, there is no legislated requirement to minute any discussion that isn't either a report to the board or discussion relating to a motion.
    The following comes from the corporations act (not entirely relevant, but good for context)
    Minutes
    (1) A company must keep minute books in which it records within 1 month:

    (a) proceedings and resolutions of meetings of the company's members; and

    (b) proceedings and resolutions of directors' meetings (including meetings of a committee of directors); and

    (c) resolutions passed by members without a meeting; and

    (d) resolutions passed by directors without a meeting; and

    (e) if the company is a proprietary company with only 1 director--the making of declarations by the director.

    and the following comes from the WA guide to incorporation (More relevant to the ARU I think, but a different jurisdiction)
    Minutes
    Minutes of all meetings especially of the
    Annual General Meeting (AGM) and
    management committee should be
    recorded, approved and filed for easy
    retrieval (see also Meetings). Approved
    minutes provide an official record of:
    • attendance;
    • business discussed;
    • correspondence received;
    • reports tabled;
    • decisions made; and
    • resolutions adopted.
    Recorded decisions should clearly state:
    • what decision has been made;
    • who will be responsible for its
    implementation;
    • when the decision is to be
    implemented by;
    • if the decision is to be reviewed, and if
    so, when and by whom; and
    • who should be notified of the decision
    and how.
    In addition to minutes, it is also common
    practice for associations to maintain a
    register of all significant resolutions
    passed by the association.

    In neither discussion does it require minutes to be taken of general discussion that doesn't result in a motion or a resolution. Whilst it is typically a convention to record everything that is said, it isn't a requirement. Therefore the member unions might ALREADY have copies of minutes and be blindsided by a sudden appearance of a resolution which enacts something that the board of management has been discussing and planning for months without actually recording (and it could be done legally)

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    Champion Contributor sandgroperrugby's Avatar
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    Hopefully these guys can keep the heat on the ARU after next week.

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    Generally speaking you aren’t learning much if your lips are moving!!!

  11. #626
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    And the response from the EARU will be ... ?

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  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by FingerTips View Post
    And the response from the EARU will be ... ?
    They will follow their usual communication protocols in answering this respected media personality's entirely valid questions.

    Speaking of answers to quesitons.

    Clyne responded to my email with

    Mr Hill

    Thank you for your note. I can not comment on a number of the questions you raise while we are subject to legal action but can confirm that at no stage has there been any intention to discontinue the Perth Spirit in the NRC.

    Regards

    Cameron Clyne

    So I guess we can believe that the Perth Spirit are as safe as the Western Force were in June of last year. That makes me supremely confident!

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    .. "the ARU will hope to hide behind the Bledislow Cup promotions this week.. to defect attention.."

    With all due respect to DHP, AC et all, l hope the Black's pummel the Wallabies this weekend to keep the blow torch burning on the board. Unfortunately the Black's usually start the Championship with an off game.

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  14. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    In neither discussion does it require minutes to be taken of general discussion that doesn't result in a motion or a resolution. Whilst it is typically a convention to record everything that is said, it isn't a requirement. Therefore the member unions might ALREADY have copies of minutes and be blindsided by a sudden appearance of a resolution which enacts something that the board of management has been discussing and planning for months without actually recording
    Or, more likely in this case, a subset of the board and/or management.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    (and it could be done legally)
    The ARU is an Australian Public Company. RugbyWA is a shareholder. There are severe penalties for misleading or deceptive conduct by directors of public companies, especially towards shareholders (including personal liability).

    All hypothetical, of course.

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  15. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveWA View Post
    The ARU is an Australian Public Company. RugbyWA is a shareholder. There are severe penalties for misleading or deceptive conduct by directors of public companies, especially towards shareholders (including personal liability).

    All hypothetical, of course.
    Publically listed Company? therefore it's Corporations law i'm pretty sure.

    Not that there is much of a difference. Probably a lot more stringent penalties for deliberate deception, but the issue is in proving it. You can be sure that any discussions which were kept from the minutes were also kept from potential whistle blowers. If one person cracks, the whole house of cards will come down, until then, everybody helps to keep each other out of the ocean of shit.

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