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Thread: Force/Rebels must lift or perish

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    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    Force/Rebels must lift or perish

    The Super Rugby season is in the first round of matches but significantly very little of the discussion in rugby circles is about rugby but rather the confusion and makeup of the competition itself.

    The future of the five Australian franchises has come under the microscope, with the Western Force and even the multiple championship-winning Brumbies tipped to face the axe if governing body SANZAAR reduces the number of teams.

    This has been a revolving subject over the last year or two and the mere fact that it is still making headlines before the season doesn’t bode well for some of the Australian teams.

    The unwieldy 18-team, four-conference format has done more to confuse even the most ardent of fans than engage them in what looks like a never-ending drama.

    In the short-term the only possible saviour for the Australian franchises is the broadcast agreement that runs to 2020 but the revival of a trans-Tasman type competition is a possibility, with South Africa to aligning itself to Europe.

    This subject on whether to join the Six Nations or not has been on the agenda in South Africa for a while now and it wouldn’t surprise me if they defected to the UK and Europe in the near future which would put Southern Hemisphere rugby in turmoil.

    Worse, there is even a possibility the ARU could be isolated from mainstream representative rugby if New Zealand set up something with the South Africans, which is a possibility based on TV ratings and potentially increased finances. This could leave Australian rugby with nothing more than a glorified NRC competition and an inconsistent national team.

    Then there is the continual player drain to Europe, which Australian rugby simply cannot match, resulting in a reduction of the quality of the code in an already competitive sporting market.

    So where does rugby in this country sit at the moment?

    I presume somewhere down the bottom of the rung and the continuing speculation and indecision off the field will distract players, supporters and importantly sponsors from committing themselves to the game they play in heaven.

    And we all thought that Australian rugby’s biggest problems were on the field after a lacklustre 2016 in which all five Australian Super Rugby franchises and the Wallabies under performed. And the last thing the code needs is uncertainty off the field. The game’s administrators do all they can to provide the coaching staff with the best players and support staff so it’s about time the players lived up to their hype by delivering the goods and living up to their sometimes exorbitant reputations.

    A coach is only as good as his players and not necessarily the other way around, although many coaches, past and current, may take offence at that.

    A young Wallabies backline tested the All Blacks in 1980 to win the Bledisloe Cup series in Australia coached by the late Bob Templeton, who gave his new recruits every opportunity to show their talents.

    Much the same can be said of Bob Dwyer who never tried to over coach my brothers and me in the late 1970s when we played at Randwick, allowing us to run riot. So perhaps the secret of success lies within the determination and desire of the players and not so much the coach.

    So based on my simple logic, the pressure is rightfully on the players to lift their game. Or, in fact, do we have enough quality players around Australia to sustain five franchises? The answer is no. But at the end of the day, whether you agree with me or not, both groups must work cohesively together and I really don’t care what, who, why or how they collaborate as long as they deliver the results that we, the loyal supporters, are screaming out for, success!

    In my opinion, the pressure still remains on the Force and Melbourne Rebels to perform and not so much on the Brumbies, who have won two Super Rugby Championships. The Force have been around a long time and have done everything within their scope to keep rugby alive in Perth but this season must determine their longevity because support from SANZAAR and the ARU must surely be waning.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/western-force-melbourne-rebels-must-lift-their-game-on-perish/news-story/16bae19e73a49fadc254a9bf30520f90

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    The author isn't indicated in your post Jargs. But at a guess it's Mark Ella. One of the most naturally gifted players ever, and a poor trainer who quit at 26. He would not last a pre season these days. Sad to see him bagging out blokes who actually work incrdeibly hard to make the grade, regardless of their salaries.

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    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    It was written by Mark Ella, good pick up.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    I could have guessed it was mark Ella by the subtle hint of I'm he greatest rugby player who ever lived mixed with a gentle touch of regardless what the do the once must go.

    Three aussie teams lost this week. Of those three, the one that looked hopelessly out of its depth was the rebels, does Ella suggest they go?
    The brumbies' finances appear to be a mess, does Ella suggest they go?
    The force came within a bonus point of beating the unarguably strongest team in aussie rugby, yet Ella suggests they go.

    This guy cares not one whit for the current state of the game, it's all about how awesome he was.

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    C'mon the

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    I could have guessed it was mark Ella by the subtle hint of I'm he greatest rugby player who ever lived mixed with a gentle touch of regardless what the do the once must go.

    Three aussie teams lost this week. Of those three, the one that looked hopelessly out of its depth was the rebels, does Ella suggest they go?
    The brumbies' finances appear to be a mess, does Ella suggest they go?
    The force came within a bonus point of beating the unarguably strongest team in aussie rugby, yet Ella suggests they go.

    This guy cares not one whit for the current state of the game, it's all about how awesome he was.
    And bare fulfilling the required filing deadlines to be considered a sports journalalist

    **edit**

    My phone auto corrected "journalist" to "journalost" just then. Now I'm genuinely not sure whether I should have corrected it.

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Just to set the record straight, I don't have a problem with him writing up his opinion. He's paid to do it. I do have a problem with him bagging out the modern day players, saying the administrators have done everything possible to support them. That has only been true for the "heartland" franchises, and really they are the ones that have pretty much under performed . Two Aussie franchises were trashed by the "administrators" parachuting in a coach who was way, way out of his depth. And in the Force's case they have had to get by on pretty inadequate support staff.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with him expressing his opinion, as long as he's ok with me expressing my Opinion.

    In my opinion, he's become a myopic tool.

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    C'mon the

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    Once again previous on field success rather than long term business decisions are the driving factor. Long term Force (and Rebels) will do more for Australian rugby than the Brumbies can possibly do. Growth of the game, sponsorship, time zones all favour the force but because the Brumbies have won a few titles they are supposedly safe.

    Time to look forward.

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    coz Stone Cold says so

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Cold View Post
    Once again previous on field success rather than long term business decisions are the driving factor. Long term Force (and Rebels) will do more for Australian rugby than the Brumbies can possibly do. Growth of the game, sponsorship, time zones all favour the force but because the Brumbies have won a few titles they are supposedly safe.

    Time to look forward.
    Well put. I've had a few thoughts about the growing the game angle myself. Isn't it time for the IRB to have a little chat to SANZAR while they are in the UK for next month's meeting...."Listen, you lot, we spend multiple millions every year supporting the game in minnow nations. So why are you lot even considering flushing WA Rugby down the shitter?"

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    I can't get over how few people went to the Tah's v Force game.
    Read one comment from a Tahs member saying they didn't go because of the weather, not wanting to get wet watching a crap match!
    The weather was only drizzling, we got drizzled on twice the whole match, we walked 45 mins to the game in lightly drizzling rain with two kids under 5. It's not hard to be prepared. They invented ponchos for a reason!

    It just beggars belief for me that a few spots of rain would cause them not to turn up, even playing against a "crap" team.
    I'm sorry but there is only 7/8 home games a year to support your team and get your monies worth. Getting a little bit uncomfortable once a year shouldn't be an excuse to not get out and support your team despite who they are playing.

    That Tahs members attitude says the Tahs (and aussie\super rugby in general) has a real problem engaging with fans. Will cutting the force or rebels solve that? What happens when the Kings\sunwolves\jaguares\worst NZ\SA team come to town?
    I didn't see any pre-match family activities. You are always going to have "boring" games, other sports get around this by making the area around the ground exciting. At least the Force engage in pre-match activities to entice families along, didn't see any at the Allianz.

    Whinge Over

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    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazloT View Post
    I can't get over how few people went to the Tah's v Force game.
    Read one comment from a Tahs member saying they didn't go because of the weather, not wanting to get wet watching a crap match!
    The weather was only drizzling, we got drizzled on twice the whole match, we walked 45 mins to the game in lightly drizzling rain with two kids under 5. It's not hard to be prepared. They invented ponchos for a reason!

    It just beggars belief for me that a few spots of rain would cause them not to turn up, even playing against a "crap" team.
    I'm sorry but there is only 7/8 home games a year to support your team and get your monies worth. Getting a little bit uncomfortable once a year shouldn't be an excuse to not get out and support your team despite who they are playing.

    That Tahs members attitude says the Tahs (and aussie\super rugby in general) has a real problem engaging with fans. Will cutting the force or rebels solve that? What happens when the Kings\sunwolves\jaguares\worst NZ\SA team come to town?
    I didn't see any pre-match family activities. You are always going to have "boring" games, other sports get around this by making the area around the ground exciting. At least the Force engage in pre-match activities to entice families along, didn't see any at the Allianz.

    Whinge Over
    The Tahs "fans" I have had contact with said they didn't go because it was "only the Force" and therefore the game would be bound to be crap and they would rather watch it on their flash new TV in the comfort of their own home instead. They find every Aus derby involving the Force dull and boring and truly believe that the best way to get a good crowd in for a derby at the SFS is to can the Force and set up a new SR franchise in W Sydney which would generate huge interest based on the cross-town rivalry.

    This - in my experience - is the calibre of the average Sydney rugby supporter. They profess to be interested in growing the game and ensuring there is a good business model in place for the sake of the future of rugby in Australia but are so up themselves that they think Valhalla is to be found somewhere near Penrith.

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    Rookie Leo86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazloT View Post
    I can't get over how few people went to the Tah's v Force game.
    Read one comment from a Tahs member saying they didn't go because of the weather, not wanting to get wet watching a crap match!
    The weather was only drizzling, we got drizzled on twice the whole match, we walked 45 mins to the game in lightly drizzling rain with two kids under 5. It's not hard to be prepared. They invented ponchos for a reason!

    It just beggars belief for me that a few spots of rain would cause them not to turn up, even playing against a "crap" team.
    I'm sorry but there is only 7/8 home games a year to support your team and get your monies worth. Getting a little bit uncomfortable once a year shouldn't be an excuse to not get out and support your team despite who they are playing.

    That Tahs members attitude says the Tahs (and aussie\super rugby in general) has a real problem engaging with fans. Will cutting the force or rebels solve that? What happens when the Kings\sunwolves\jaguares\worst NZ\SA team come to town?
    I didn't see any pre-match family activities. You are always going to have "boring" games, other sports get around this by making the area around the ground exciting. At least the Force engage in pre-match activities to entice families along, didn't see any at the Allianz.

    Whinge Over
    I cant seem to find anywhere what the attendance number was. Anyone know the actual figure? Would be a good argument if force have higher numbers (revenue) than other aussid franchises

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Does anybody remember a horrible wet night about 4 years ago when we played (I think itvwas) the stormers and it chucked it down without a break for most of the game?

    I think there were about the same number of force fans there that night, and the ponchos were useless. It was so wet that the dribbles down the neck and back were enough to saturate you by half time.

    Mini gigs gave up on the poncho and just put up with being wet.

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    C'mon the

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    Does anybody remember a horrible wet night about 4 years ago when we played (I think itvwas) the stormers and it chucked it down without a break for most of the game?

    I think there were about the same number of force fans there that night, and the ponchos were useless. It was so wet that the dribbles down the neck and back were enough to saturate you by half time.

    Mini gigs gave up on the poncho and just put up with being wet.
    Remember that night very well. The missus had the 1yr old under the poncho with her. The ponchos were working upto the point that the wetness went through the shoes and climbed up the pants and kept going 😀. Great fun.

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    Immortal Contributor jono's Avatar
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    in 2014 the force averaged bigger crowds than the tahs
    cant find the exact figures but it basically spelt out that the tahs fans love their team - until they have to get off their arses and go to a home game

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