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Thread: WA Rugby - The Future

  1. #121
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    European club soccer has lower divisions with 'B' and 'C' teams of the large clubs. However, rules are set up such that Barcelona 'B' cannot play in the same division as Barcelona 'A'. If the 'B' team wins promotion, they are held down, while if the 'A' team gets demoted and the 'B' team is in the next division below then they are forced to drop down as well.

    Can club rugby be set up along similar lines? Say 8 teams per division, starting with the top division having the best premier grade sides. The second division then has some premier grade sides and some reserve sides. The third division has reserves and 3rds, etc. I recall (possibly a couple of years ago) Joondalup I think not being able to play premier grade because they could not guarantee grade sides all the way down to 4ths. This would prevent that happening again, as the top grade would just find it's level.

    I can see some issues, such that if a premier grade side gets demoted the reserves might have to move down a division, too, but that would also count for if the 3rds get demotion, which might mean for the final couple of weeks of a season the 3rds get the 2nds playing for them! And it might not stop poaching of players, but if your premier grade side got demoted would you be able to buy a side of good players to play in the 2nd division?

    Just a thought.

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  2. #122
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    I think, with small numbers and (apparently) limited quality, a better system would be a feeder system like is done with baseball.

    That would mean a smaller number of Prems clubs, with a range of clubs beneath them playing at different levels all organised into a structure that allows a player from the lowest grade club a pathway into a higher grade club from the same organisation (cluster, union, call it what you like)

    I think the Mitre 10 Cup looks a little like that, with the M10 teams drawing players from grade clubs in their geographical region.

    That would (MIGHT) lessen the poaching, because no team in the state would be without a pathway to Prems rugby, the players would just move through various teams from different clubs.

    The first step to doinf this is to wipe the slate entirely clean though (particularly at the top level) and redesign the whole thing. Perhaps 8 regions, Inner and Outer North South East and West, possibly named after a club that is central (but probably better not to be) followed by smaller clubs in the region feeding their Premier grade players into the representative team to play Premier grade.

    So, taking Outer South as an example, Rocky, Kwinana and Mandurah would field teams in maybe C & D grade and Junior grades, but their better players players would be awarded a place in a combined team to play in the Reserves and Prems, same could work for Colts etc.

    I've seen it work very well in other sports, where a fierce club rivalry seems to be easily put on hold while playing for the reps side and returned once you return to the grade club.

    It would increase the talent pool available to each Prem club and allow for a stand out phenomenon to get a trial game in reserves or prems without having to be bought off while he is in 15s and then wait until he's old enough.

    Add a transfer fee between clubs (to acknowledge the work a club puts into their juniors) which will further reduce the impact of poaching and I think it could work.

    But to set something like that up, you would need to totally redraw premier grade and remove the prems status from teams like Neddies, Cott, Soaks et al. If anybody thinks the clubs will give that up easily they're dreaming.

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  3. #123
    Champion zed's Avatar
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    There either needs to be two separate divisions or change the rules that insists prems teams field teams in grades 1,2 and 3. Clubs like Wanneroo, Rocky, Baysie, Joondalup are always going to struggle to field competitive teams in all grades for the entire season. Invariably injuries occur and guys in their 50s are dragged up from the lower grades, floggings and/or forfeits are the usual result. We had a farcical situation a few years ago, we couldn't get a 3rd grade side together so 5th grade, a team full of old dogs, beginners etc etc were forced to move up two grades to avoid the prems and reserves losing their points.

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  4. #124
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    This sounds very much like the old Pillar Comp in Victoria ... whereby 4 clubs across the state provided a rep team to compete.

    The result was a mess, central clubs became stronger due to players representing the Pillar team just moved clubs, some clubs refused to let players go so became stronger in their comp playing against semi-reserve teams.

    Ended up quite the panto when Melbourne Unicorns were aligned with Shepparton RUFC and Geelong RUFC, just a simple drive through Victoria for training then !

    Rugby in WA has little player depth, so that needs to be protected whilst the game is grown. We need competition with what is here, not a stretching of resources.

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  5. #125
    Champion zed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    This sounds very much like the old Pillar Comp in Victoria ... whereby 4 clubs across the state provided a rep team to compete.

    The result was a mess, central clubs became stronger due to players representing the Pillar team just moved clubs, some clubs refused to let players go so became stronger in their comp playing against semi-reserve teams.

    Ended up quite the panto when Melbourne Unicorns were aligned with Shepparton RUFC and Geelong RUFC, just a simple drive through Victoria for training then !

    Rugby in WA has little player depth, so that needs to be protected whilst the game is grown. We need competition with what is here, not a stretching of resources.
    I'm not sure what the solution is, but the current system isn't great. Well it is for some clubs. I'd imagine at least 4 or 5 Prems clubs, 40% are unhappy with the current setup.

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  6. #126
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    It's time for some radical ideas to be implemented and if it's at the cost of the purple circle so be it
    It's been a closed shop for far to long and as all great empires they crumble from the inside out
    I am happy to sit down with RWA and all club presidents and get the revolution under way
    This group at the top are tired and have lost there way blaming everyone else instead of getting off there arse and doing it and the presidents know what needs to be done but need a nose ring to lead them into the arena

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  7. #127
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zed View Post
    There either needs to be two separate divisions or change the rules that insists prems teams field teams in grades 1,2 and 3. Clubs like Wanneroo, Rocky, Baysie, Joondalup are always going to struggle to field competitive teams in all grades for the entire season. Invariably injuries occur and guys in their 50s are dragged up from the lower grades, floggings and/or forfeits are the usual result. We had a farcical situation a few years ago, we couldn't get a 3rd grade side together so 5th grade, a team full of old dogs, beginners etc etc were forced to move up two grades to avoid the prems and reserves losing their points.
    This is what, I hope, my idea could eliminate. The 4th division could have clubs like Neddies 'D' & Soaks 'D', but also Rocky 'B', Joondalup 'C', Perth Irish & Ellenbrook 'A'. If the club from Ellenbrook gets better it can move up the ranks by promotion, rather than by having to have Premier, reserves, 2nd, 3rd & 4th sides just to be allowed to compete at a high enough level.

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  8. #128
    Player yungfen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    This is what, I hope, my idea could eliminate. The 4th division could have clubs like Neddies 'D' & Soaks 'D', but also Rocky 'B', Joondalup 'C', Perth Irish & Ellenbrook 'A'. If the club from Ellenbrook gets better it can move up the ranks by promotion, rather than by having to have Premier, reserves, 2nd, 3rd & 4th sides just to be allowed to compete at a high enough level.
    That makes too much sense for it to happen.
    They will say that they need all of their teams to play at the same venue....

    But seriously this is the best way for any club competition to be fair and give all clubs an opportunity to grow and climb up gradually.

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  9. #129
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    [QUOTE=yungfen;424444]They will say that they need all of their teams to play at the same venue....
    QUOTE]

    Which is a very valid point, as so many clubs are dependent on home games' income where everyone can hang about to the final game of their first team ... it's also the biggest reason why the junior set up is fundamentally flawed; Britannia Oval, seriously still happening?
    Albeit a little off topic.

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  10. #130
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    [QUOTE=Kev;424446]
    Quote Originally Posted by yungfen View Post
    They will say that they need all of their teams to play at the same venue....
    QUOTE]

    Which is a very valid point, as so many clubs are dependent on home games' income where everyone can hang about to the final game of their first team ... it's also the biggest reason why the junior set up is fundamentally flawed; Britannia Oval, seriously still happening?
    Albeit a little off topic.
    I have been treasurer of a non prem grade club for a couple of years and the profit from the bar was a very small portion of the ins of the club. Membership Fees and Sponsors are what makes a club tick along. Perhaps the prem clubs have much higher margins on their beers and hot dogs....

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  11. #131
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    [QUOTE=yungfen;424448]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post

    I have been treasurer of a non prem grade club for a couple of years and the profit from the bar was a very small portion of the ins of the club. Membership Fees and Sponsors are what makes a club tick along. Perhaps the prem clubs have much higher margins on their beers and hot dogs....
    Young fella you need to have a look at who works behind the bar or get rid of all the pill poppers and get some drinkers
    We need to stay on task gents the current admin needs to fuck off or let me educate them in how to run a rugby comp like a business where we all profit
    These purple circle clubs need 2 years to get there heads out of there arse and merge or be dissolved
    Tough decisions need to be made by someone who has only rugby as the winner in his sights
    These Neanderthal cock heads stopping progress need to move on or come up with something better

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  12. #132
    Champion zed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yungfen View Post
    That makes too much sense for it to happen.
    They will say that they need all of their teams to play at the same venue....

    But seriously this is the best way for any club competition to be fair and give all clubs an opportunity to grow and climb up gradually.
    Exactly. When I played in the UK, it was rare for all the clubs teams to be playing home at the same time because often the team they were playing would have a 2nd /3rd team in completely different divisions. It worked well, because teams were evenly matched. If a clubs 2nd team smashed everyone in their league they were moved up.

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  13. #133
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    [QUOTE=sevenmile;424449]
    Quote Originally Posted by yungfen View Post
    Young fella you need to have a look at who works behind the bar or get rid of all the pill poppers and get some drinkers
    We need to stay on task gents the current admin needs to fuck off or let me educate them in how to run a rugby comp like a business where we all profit
    These purple circle clubs need 2 years to get there heads out of there arse and merge or be dissolved
    Tough decisions need to be made by someone who has only rugby as the winner in his sights
    These Neanderthal cock heads stopping progress need to move on or come up with something better
    Seven ,god help me for saying this, but you are deadest on the money. Something has to drastically change from the Force down. The Force gets the ass, the local comp will suffer as well. To many political fucken agendas, as per usual, to see the forrest through the trees and the only people it is going to harm are the next bunch of lads coming through. I personally have had fuck all to do with the local comp partly because my young fella has been to young and after reading the shit that's been going on over the last few years I can understand why I don't want to be involved. My young fella is about to turn 8 and the other day he said to me dad I wanna play for the Force like Dane and Pek and Tetera, but even better he said he wants to play in the local grades like Kane and Richard and Ryan did. If we don't shore up this ridiculous system now well I fear for my young bloke ever getting the chance. Seven if want someone to come into bat with you i'm with ya. Jeremy

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  14. #134
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    Send your young bloke down to Cott. He'll get free everything and they may even send their bus to pick him up.

    Sevenmile, who's your primary target? Hansie? The old guard at Cott? Chardonnay mob at Soaks? The Board? CRAC? Lots of targets. You might need some help.

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  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
    Send your young bloke down to Cott. He'll get free everything and they may even send their bus to pick him up.

    Sevenmile, who's your primary target? Hansie? The old guard at Cott? Chardonnay mob at Soaks? The Board? CRAC? Lots of targets. You might need some help.
    With news of the forces head at the top of the chopping block it takes an even more serious outlook on the future of rugby from grassroots to the rep field
    Where do you start with this group as one legend said once let's drain the swamp
    They are all non produces even the so called community rugby orientated crac the spine of community rugby with no backbone.
    We need a group of hard working rugby people who are not afraid to trample the system on there way to creating a more well balanced competition that creates success for those who work hard instead of being trampled and treated like shit
    A comp where the best players are selected on merit for the better of the comp and to keep players in the game that thrive on competition
    The purple circle are starting to get found out and are totally out of there league as they are starting to run out of clubs that they can undermine these clubs are becoming less resourced and cannot sustain themselves let alone prop up a bunch of self serving geriatric fuck wits

    Can have a word in Steve Tews ear if required

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