French Connection

[The Lone Hydrangea]

Any thoughts on Joel Jutge refeffing? Im thrilled that perhaps SANZAR has realised that there might be refs apart from the Tri nation countries that can look after our games.About bloody time they took the blinkers off.It can only be a positive thing for broading the ref experience base.Also the stigma of getting some neutral woodduck ref (southern hemisphere) officiating in away games can be nutted,hence taking out whingeing about them! ie Kaplan
This has to be a positive move in the long run for rugby.

[Darren]

I didn;t see the game - I'm sure every ref has some personal bias, but you'd think NH refs in a SH game would be a bit more neutral? I think it's a good move.

[The EnForcer]

I thought he did a great job. Missed a few infingements but certainly kept the game flowing, another ref could have made it a real stop start affair.

[Happy]

I thought he did a great job. Missed a few infingements but certainly kept the game flowing, another ref could have made it a real stop start affair.

yeah me three... he seemed to be a bit slack on scrum infringements but on the whole I would rather have a ref outside the tri-nations in future!

[.X.]

I dont think that there is a Referee on the planet that gets scrum calls correct. Untill we have retired front Rowers employed as Refs we will never see correct decisions.

[wareferee]

FYI all Tri-Nations have been part of the IRB allocations since inception. THey are no longer the preserve of the South Hemisphere Unions. Jutge is on eof the tope 3 European Refs (Chris White & Allain Rolland) being the others. He has also played in the top league in France as a scrum-half. I thought he had a good all round game, especially his rapport / empathy with the objectives of the players. In relation to the srcum, it's been an issues in S14 as well. Props take the hit and drop thier binds. It's hard to differentiate if one is pushing early or another is pulling to get a deliberate wheel. The onus shoul be on coaches to ensure front rowers play within the Law and in the spirit of the game.

[wareferee]

Also, Exile, former Australia Wayne Ericson was a 100+ game front rower for Easts in Sydney before becoming a ref. He also has issues with the front rowers.

[.X.]

FYI all Tri-Nations have been part of the IRB allocations since inception. THey are no longer the preserve of the South Hemisphere Unions. Jutge is on eof the tope 3 European Refs (Chris White & Allain Rolland) being the others. He has also played in the top league in France as a scrum-half. I thought he had a good all round game, especially his rapport / empathy with the objectives of the players. In relation to the srcum, it's been an issues in S14 as well. Props take the hit and drop thier binds. It's hard to differentiate if one is pushing early or another is pulling to get a deliberate wheel. The onus shoul be on coaches to ensure front rowers play within the Law and in the spirit of the game.

I agree WAref - it would be in the best interest of both front rows from a safely perspective to hit straight on and bind correctly. I believe that as long as we have the rule about a reversal of scrum head and feed for a wheel past the 180 it will continue to happen, remove that law and the scrums will improve.

In my humble opinion of course

[frontrow]

I agree Exile, and as an ex frontrower, and hooker, i have played a lot of games where i was penalised incorrectly, or vice versa, by pretty boy ex backs, who became refs to avoid disfigurement to thier pretty boy looks, and then take out thier resentment on the hard working forwards. Slightly cynical i know, but sometimes thats how you feel....
Anyhow, i took up reffing for several seasons in Perth, and found the scrum to be a challenge at best, but as an experienced prop, who was also still playing in first grade, well, i found i could police this area well, and knew when some one was driving in or wheeling the scrum. We need more forwards reffing, as this is by far the most important area, and an area which needs the most safety concious policing.
Unfortunately a lot of ex props are too run down to continue reffing after years of hard work up front.....

[AndyS]

I would imagine the retort from an ex-back would be that the forwards couldn't keep up with the game while playing, why would they be able to as a ref?

I thought Jutge was fine. It would be nice to see more interchange of referees, as the RWC complaint is always that interpretations are different between hemispheres and anything that could help standardise is good.

[frontrow]

Perhaps we may lag behind in the sprint for the line over distance, but it`s a different story when no one is tackling you, or impeding your progress, or having to pack down for scrums every time a back knocks on, you get the idea....I found it easy to be at the breakdown and in control, but i was actually pretty fit back then. Nowadays i`d be absolutely useless as haven`t trained for ages...except in the art of drinking ale, that would be where i have become an elite athlete, and no need for a referee...
I alos thought the refereeing was ok, this wasn`t me having a go at the ref like i did Kaplan, he is still a tool

[Burgs]

Left field suggestion I know and the immediate argument will be "too many Refs on the field" but lend me your ears (well....eyes) for a moment.
A consistent "problem" and criticism of Refs' is surrounding the scrum and especially the plethora of technical interpretations given by different Refs' around the Rugby globe concerning the front row engagement.
Perhaps the mob at Stellenbosch? should investigate the use off a "Scrummaging Official" (who would be an ex International Front Rower) whos sole responsability is to adjudicate the scrum (or specifically the tight fives) until the ball is in the hands of the halback. I would picture he would stand on the opposite side to the feeding Half with the Ref standing in an appropriate wider position to observe movement in the backs.
He then makes his way to the closest touchline at his earliest "prop-like" convienience until the next scrum is called.
This would place this critical area in the hands of a more qualified (or at least experienced) official and allow the actual Ref to concentrate on the first phase offside in the backs and the early detachment by the defending back row.
Further use could be as a similar role for the lineout allowing the Ref to go back to the defending offside line with the backs.
In all instances the "Scrummaging Official" has control of the match until the ball leaves the set piece, with the exception of the Ref overruling with an offside judgement against the defending backline.
There are definately negatives however, on balance, I think it would greatly help to clean up the game and really have an impact on offside play in the set piece as well.
Not only would such a qualified "Scrummaging Official" (such as Kearnsey, Sean Fitpatrick, Kieth Wood etc) be given the utmost respect for their career, players would also know that they would not be able to bluff this person either as the now "SO" would have done it all many times before themselves!
Food for thought anyway?

[Flamethrower]

They could have a Golf Cart to run the "Scrummaging Official" around the field to speed things up even more

[Moses]

I agree 100% Burgs, and was just about to suggest a Golf Cart but have been beaten to the punch. Can I therefore suggest the Golf Cart has beer on tap and a pie warmer to keep the former props interested

[Flamethrower]

I had a bit more of a think about this. You could put the “ Scrummaging Official “ on a Four Wheeler Mini Bike and when he is not needed he could fang around and gee up the crowd. The concept could be taken further and borrow an idea from the Cheerleaders thread and put a Pole Dancer on the back of the bike.