Spirit v Vikings

[brokendown gunfighter]

Gee Tasman looks good--Morrisson is doing well,getting involved in a lot of off the ball work also.
HTFU is a term of endearment

[Tazzmania]

Like the idea of the curtain raiser and how it's being done.
Although persons the likes of whatsdoin are hell bent on being negative about everything, the work to build depth and build numbers has only been done correctly the last couple of seasons, and to incorporate Force players into coaching roles into upcoming tiers is fantastic.
It's very evident that WA doesn't have the continual conveyor belt of players that NZ or SA has, but this is absolutely the way to make that happen. - as many players as possible getting game time, players not playing in coaching roles, incorporating as many juniors into everything. It's a good foundation for the future Force empire.
On a national level, it's exactly what the NRC is about.

Gbeard there are many of us that agree exactly what you say.

Those talking reality need to get one themselves.

We cannot be results driven given the obstacles in our way, look at other minnows like ourselves, when last did the Scotland win a trophy for example but they are out their trying their best each and every time they take to the field, do they change their coach every time they fail to score s try or win a comp.

U.S. Rugby lovers enjoy the endeavour and effort our boys put in to be competitive, you want to support a winning team rather back one of the NZ teams they will give you a high percentage win loss ratio, for the rest of us we are great full that people like Foley are prepared to come here and teach and mentor our boys to be competitive and give us something to watch and enjoy.

Go the spirit go the force as long as you give it your all I and ism sure many others will be there to thank you and try and spur you on.

[G_Beard]

Negative is not the word - Reality is the correct description of where the force is at!
You are kidding by stating that the way everything is being handled is the right way to go!!
Professional sport is a result driven operation. Last in Super XV and currently LAST in NRC and you are telling me/us that what they are doing is working???!!!
Mr G.Beard, they must be stoked that they have a supporter like you! And good on you sir, but it aint reality.

There's a difference between constructive opinion/advice, disappointed outbursts, and outright hatred for something that you will pick holes in its very existence.
Yours is clearly the latter. We can see you have an axe to grind, and good luck with that.

Beyond anything I and Others want a Super team here in Perth, so regardless of results - some years are fantastic, others not so much. You celebrate the good and commiserate the not so good. I'm going to back and support the Team, whether they are winning or building up to a win. I like a lot of the initiatives that are happening and choose to see that they will pay dividends.

But hey, why not drag that hatred around with you!
Good day to you.

[andrewg]

Negative is not the word - Reality is the correct description of where the force is at!
You are kidding by stating that the way everything is being handled is the right way to go!!
Professional sport is a result driven operation. Last in Super XV and currently LAST in NRC and you are telling me/us that what they are doing is working???!!!
Mr G.Beard, they must be stoked that they have a supporter like you! And good on you sir, but it aint reality.

Whatsdoin - you're always entitled to your opinion......

BUT it's time to talk about a bit of the reality that you're so keen on.

Suggest you revisit what the NRC was for:
+ Competition which will shape the pathway for junior rugby reps to develop into elite players, coaches and match officials.
+ The missing link in their development pathway towards Super Rugby and Wallaby selection
+ Create compelling content for broadcasters with a quality local competition.
+ There is a quota for the number of SXV players in each of the 9 teams. So it's not just a case of playing anybody from the Western Force.

Last year the NRC was won by Brisbane City, which has close links with the Reds. The Reds had 4 wins in the SXV.
The Perth Spirit were runners up. As we know the WF won only 3 games.

This would suggest that to win the NRC translates to ZERO in the SXV.
It's clearly not all about winning!!

The Rising did well last year, with mostly SXV players, and the Rebels ended up winning 7 games in SXV.
However, most of their recruitment appears to be from other franchises.

BUT, the NRC is all about developing and testing players to see who MAY be able to make it at SXV level for the Western Force.
So far this year the Spirit has tested most of the Premier grade players who are considered to have potential to go further.
By the end of the next couple of games I reckon that ALL of those players with potential who are fit will have been given a go.
What we MAY see then is the best of our best being given a chance to build combinations.

What a great way to develop and test the local players.

Suggest that if you have a real problem with the way the WF squad and broader Spirit squad is being handled that you get down to the ground during training and see just how much work the WF players are putting in. It's all about skills strengthening/devlopment and team building. One obvious benefit is just how well Ian Prior is kicking on goal. Far better than any WF player in the SXV this year.
I'm sure that the coaching staff would be approachable to explain their philosophy.

We were NEVER going to see the regular starting XV WF players playing in the NRC. Many are working on ongoing rehab issues.
Those that are playing generally didn't get a lot of time in SXV. Others are being given leadership experience. Some need to find some form.
All of this is good and clearly in the right direction.

In all 3 games the Spirit were in competitive, if not winning, positions. It's disappointing to me that WF squad members and leaders have been Yellow Carded as I expect them to read the refs better. Poor decision making and handling errors have contributed to the losses. IMO these are player/on-field problems. Not coaching problems.

In 2015, Michael Foley appears to be copping the whole blame for the under-performance in SXV. He also seems to get blames for everything that been wrong with the Force even during the 8 years before he became coach.
In reality Sinderberry and Foley had to rebuild the franchise. Foley had to make the best of a squad that was left by Graham.
I reckon that the WF over-performed above all expectations (including Foley's) in 2014 and under-performed against everybod's expectations in 2015.

Foley has already face supporters and said that the 2015 performance was his/the coaching panels' fault. He's not once openly blamed the players. Perhaps he should have - but that's his call. Good on him for protecting his playing group!

The reality is that after Hodgson was injured before the season even started too many players simply went missing and failed to build on the good performance or potential shown in 2014. Some of these players have not had contract extensions. We have 3 players who were with the Wallabies in the EOY Tests who aren't at the RWC!
I'm very interested to see how the squad steps-up in 2016.

IMO the WF is doing a great job developing/testing local talent as it just doesn't have the budget to continually attract/retain players from OS and over East. That's just another reality. It isn't an "even playing field" when you consider how much of the ARU $$s are directed towards the Waratahs, Reds and, to a lesser extent, the Brumbies.

The negative snipes at other TWFers' comments just aren't constructive - and bordering upon tiresome.

Rory Walton was given leadership responsibilities last year in the NRC and it's great to see him coaching the young players. His last two games have been good. Perhaps he'll benefit from a week off??
Dane H-P made the FB position his own this year and would have been borderline Wallaby selection. DHP doesn't have to prove himself at NRC level. Players like Albert Nikoro need to show what he has at this level. It's great to see Daley Harper being given a good chance to show his stuff.

Brisbane City is playing Gill and Higginbotham as obviously they have been asked to keep fit in case needed for the RWC.
It's probably the same for Tetera Faulkner.

Whatsdoin, I have no idea of your coaching or playing credentials but right now I'm happy to back the coaching team and the leadership group's view of what IS & COULD be rather than your view of what SHOULD be.

Part of reality is having real expectations.

AND in both NRC and SXV I too would like to experience more wins!!

[Whatsdoin]

Your bottom line is the reality!
Trying to justify losing is a sad place to be Mr G.

[G_Beard]

Your bottom line is the reality!
Trying to justify losing is a sad place to be Mr G.

and yet not as sad as your whole life, chap!

[Cowboy]

When I was rowing there was only one acceptable level of effort in a race, everything you have - nothing left in the tank. Some of the people I trained with went on to represent Australia, some of them already were Olympians. We were all amateur sportsman, that were training 14 times a week. The guys (and girls) who made it into a national crew when training for international level were training three times a day.

Yet for some reason we are meant to celebrate professionals who only competed 16 times in a year unless like Adam Coleman they were out injured for a few games because they are training hard?

I am pretty sure that our money is just as good as anyone else's and success as a coach here at super rugby level is just as valid as anywhere else. Yet we must be grateful that someone show up to grace us with their presence?

It doesn't matter why a competition or race was created, there is still only one acceptable attitude towards it, all out, nothing left in the tank we go after a win. The fact that something less then that is ever considered acceptable probably explains why the Force simply don't show up to play sometimes.

We might not win anymore games then we currently do, but at least we would see a team that was getting the absolute maximum out of themselves.

[AndyS]

Yep, that kind of reflects my thinking. Anyone who has been here any length of time will know just how much I have supported the concept of a lower tier comp, but I'm finding it very difficult to really stand behind the Spirit given their current approach. Player development should be a product of the comp, not the sole objective. How long has Australia envied NZ their ITMC/NPC, but do they just look at that as a lower level extension of their SR teams?

I was just watching the Southland-Waikato match and it was an interesting comparison...does anyone think Jamie Mackintosh or Sopoaga have anything to prove, 'cos I don't. Yet there they are running around for Southland, not because they need to but because they want to. Perhaps the big difference is that that was their club long before they got a professional contract, and no-one suggested directly or by example that it was actually a meaningless comp that was probably beneath a professional player. They've even got SR players playing another level down in the Championship, so you'd have to wonder why.

If they didn't do it every year, you might still imagine it is because the RWC is a tough tournament and they all know another 'Donald' moment could happen. Back in 2007 Cam Shepherd went from the ARC one week to the Wallabies the next, so it would hardly be surprising. You would have thought anyone who might actually think they were even remotely in the Wallabies frame would be out there playing the house down, because effectively they probably are. I'll go out on a limb, but I bet if they come looking for replacements players anyone just having the occasional trot is not going to be anywhere near in the frame.

[Whatsdoin]

Exactly AndyS.
andrewg must be on the payroll trying to justify his job with all that drivel.

[Tazzmania]

As Anrew g

"but right now I'm happy to back the coaching team and the leadership group's view of what IS & COULD be rather than your view of what SHOULD be."

I too back them and have faith that they are doing what they believe is best for our team.

[andrewg]

Any comparison between the NRC and Shakey Islands' ITM cup has to recognise that in NZ rugby is "the only game in town".

The Region v Region games in NZ have always been legendary and have a long history - even tradition.

Not only does NZ have their equivalent to our Premier Grade on a local level but a loooong history of an ITM Cup competition with regional honor and pride at stake. In many areas this competition is more important than Super XV results. SXV players return to their roots to play in the ITM. We are a long way from lifting the NRC to this status (if it is even possible).

It's pleasing that the ARU has made a longer term commitment to the NRC. It will continue to grow.
But it serves a different purpose to the ITM Cup which has amazing local sponsorship and support.

Will we ever have this level of sponsorship or support in WA?
I very much doubt it. It may arrive when the WF is built on predominantly local talent.
And that will take a loong time.

Recently I held a quiz night for 50 people. Only 2 people could answer correctly that the Western Force had just completed its 10th season.

[G_Beard]

Exactly AndyS.
andrewg must be on the payroll trying to justify his job with all that drivel.

Still whinging...

[AndyS]

The history may well be true AG, but they most certainly didn't get there by shrugging their shoulders and just using the NPC to give everyone a bit of a run. By that argument our Premier rugby isn't as good as the East, so we should just accept that it doesn't really matter for much and it is only a selection trial for the Shute Shield and the odd player for the NRC. Ultimately you are saying that as we are not as good straight out of the box, we shouldn't really bother trying...seems a little unambitious.

[andrewg]

AndyS
There is little doubt that our Premier Grade IS NOT as good as the Shute Shield or Brisbane Premier Comp.
If we can't accept that then we're just being delusional as it's a matter of numbers, supporters and sponsorship.
NSW and Qld are the rugby states and the main kindergardens for senior players.
It doesn't mean that we shouldn't stop growing the game, but for my lifetime in WA I expect Rugby Union to play 2nd fiddle to Aussie Football.

[AndyS]

Big difference between acknowledging it and accepting it. If you accept it, why bother changing it? The ARU accept we aren't as good, which is why they give so little funding. Never mind that it is precisely because they have never provided funding - it is the way it is, so the way it is going to stay. WA will be good for a bit of Test match cash and useful as a feeder club and rehabilitating near lost causes, but nothing much more.

To be honest, I think there are a lot of people quietly cool with that.

As a stray thought, all you've said about NZ is true. And when you look at the history, you'd have to accept that they have always basically been the better team. That being the case, perhaps Cheika should just use the RWC to blood and develop some young players...?