Super Rugby’s conference system unfair

[The InnFORCEr]

Super Rugby’s conference system unfair as Dan Carter and Richie McCaw’s Crusaders denied by inferior Stormers

JAMIE PANDARAM
The Daily Telegraph
June 15, 2015 8:05PM


SUPER Rugby’s discriminatory conference system has cost the competition’s two most iconic players, Richie McCaw and Dan Carter, the chance to bow out in the finals, while Waratahs coach Michael Cheika conceded the Highlanders can feel rightly aggrieved for not getting a home semi-final.

Under the rules, each conference must get a guaranteed finalist to make up the top three, and this year the Stormers have qualified third despite finishing with less points than the Crusaders, who farewelled McCaw and Carter with a stirring victory in Canberra last Saturday.

The conference system was pushed by South Africa to ensure they could host a lucrative finals match each year, and it will only get worse from next season, when the competition is expanded to 18 teams and they’ll have two guaranteed finalists from two separate conferences.

If the table had worked the usual way, based purely on competition points, no South African team would have made the finals, while four New Zealand teams would have qualified, and NSW would have hosted the Crusaders this weekend in an elimination playoff.

The Tahs finished with less points than the Highlanders, but under the conference system finished second and earned a week off and then host a semi-final, while the Highlanders play an elimination final this Saturday against the Chiefs.

“You never know how form works, no matter what the system is,” Cheika said.
“You could have a team in the NRL that runs eighth but is running into form and could come home well according to the seedings.

‘Obviously the New Zealand conference has done very well with three teams, the Highlanders finished with a point more than us so they’re probably thinking ‘We should be in second’ in fairness to them.

“But that is the way the conference system is set up.

"We’ll just work with what there is there, and hope we can get our preparation right to do well in our semi-final.”

South Africa will have two conferences next year, which will include teams from Argentina and Japan, and the winners of those conferences will qualify for the finals, along with those from Australia and New Zealand, regardless of how many points they finish the season with.

The conference system allowed the Stormers to rest 14 of their regular starters in the final round match against the Sharks, who pumped the reserve team 34-12. Knowing they could not finish below third, Stormers coach Allister Coetzee gave his best players a rest, and they’ll now be rejuvenated for their elimination final against the Brumbies in Cape Town.

“I think that’s the strategy of the coach, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it, there is certainly nothing wrong with giving your players a game,” Cheika said.

“There is no right or wrong way of doing anything, it’s doing what you think is right, and then backing it to the hilt.

“Their management has run a good campaign so far, they’ve won their conference, and I think they’re entitled to their respect that says whatever they decide to do is in the right interests of their team.”

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/su...-1227399306837

[yungfen]

Yes sure it is very unfair towards the Crusaders and the Highlanders.
However with the fact that not everyone plays each other twice on a home and away basis (Where a Race for the Top6 is the fairest) the end result can somewhat always be argued to be unfair towards certain teams who would have harder away games than others etc etc...

[Herbasimplex]

The conference system is unfair. The blues went 8-0 to teams in their conference which allowed NZ teams to be at the front of the table and they then have the audacity to complain about having a completely shite team like the blues in their conference. Should dock the other NZ teams points or wind up the blues franchise if they are serious about a level playing field.

Care factor zero about the saders missing the finals. If they were serious about wanting to make the finals they should not have rested their best players. Blame the coach or NZRU not the conference system.

If they want to whine and they do then whine at the RSA teams, with the stormers finishing outside the top 6 and getting a home final.

[travelling_gerry]

Wow....maybe they should have told them the rules before the start of the season!

[maelkann]

Would be interesting to work out a 'fair' table by extrapolating everyone playing everyone else once somehow.

[jargan83]

TG hits the nail on the head, everyone knew the rules before the season kicked off. The conference system isn't going anywhere.

NZ 2015 = AFC North 2014.

[chibi]

Saw this on G&GR...

A Fairer Conference System

Yesterday I discussed the unfair nature of the current Super Rugby conference system. Today I propose a simpler, fairer system that delivers less travel and better outcomes.

Firstly the group system should be abolished and replaced by three six-team conferences – SA, Aust. and NZ. The SA conference would comprise the Kings, Bulls, Sharks, Cheetahs, Lions and Stormers. The Sunwolves would be in the New Zealand conference and the Jaguares in the Australian conference. For ultimate fairness the Jaguares and Sunwolves would swap conferences each year.

Each team would play six games in their own conference and four games in the other two conferences, plus two byes. The finals would be the top team in each conference and the next five wildcards. Top wild card gets a home final in the first week and all games thereafter are played at the venue of the team in the highest position on the table by points.

Advantages:

One less week and a lot less timezone travel.
Almost the same number of games to televise, with more in viewer-friendly timeslots. (Nine less games, 133 instead of 142, if I calculate correctly, but more games in good timeslots, This would be especially true for Japan who would have 12 games that kick off between 4pm and 8pm, eight of which would be at home).
If the number of games can’t be renegotiated with the TV organisations, then alternatively you could run a seventeen week schedule as now with the same number of games. It would be achieved by playing one extra home conference game to increase the number of viewer-friendly timeslots and keep overall timezone travel as low as possible.
The Sunwolves wouldn’t be crippled by unfair travel requirements and could build their home support base with their full share of home games in Tokyo. Their crowd numbers for a start-up have been good but they need matches to build their brand. Two SA teams would have to fly to Tokyo each season, every SA team gets a turn once every three years. Given that the Sunwolves have to make the reverse trip every year for two games, this is not an unreasonable requirement. Its nowhere near as bad for travel as the Force, Highlanders or Jaguares currently experience.
The schedule would be fairer, with the SA teams losing their current unfair advantages of 3-4 perennially weak teams and extra finals over and above their proportional representation. Their timezone travel requirements would be the same as under the old Super 15 schedule with two less games each in total (shorter season and less injuries).

Disadvantages:

The current system means that SA teams have three or four timezone-change matches in alternate years. This proposal means they have four timezone change matches every year. So the SA teams are disadvantaged slightly by having one extra timezone-change match every second year.
Other than that I can’t think of any teams disadvantaged by this proposal. In this proposal, the team with the toughest draw is the Jaguares, who alone of all the teams have to have seven weeks in other countries with big timezone changes. But they currently have three weeks in SA and four weeks in NZ/Japan, so its swings and roundabouts.
SANZAAR is a politically riven organisation in which the South Africans are used to getting their own way, as the negotiations for the eighteen team expansion demonstrated. If change is proposed there will be lots of passive resistance.There will be talk about “letting the new system bed in” and “allowing the new franchises to develop”.

But in my view the current system is unsustainable and grossly unfair. I expect by season’s end there will be widespread dissatisfaction; in NZ and Japan especially. SANZAAR should not dither; some change like this will be needed for next year and everyone wins with this proposal!

[GIGS20]

Shit that's a good idea, he's been reading my old posts hasn't he?

The only difference is tha I'd put Japan in the Aussie conference and Argentina in the new Zealand conference, simply because their time zones are closer, ergo less jet lag on travelling teams.

As for nobody being disadvantaged by the system, I think it's incorrect. Since the loss of a massive advantage could be interpreted as a disadvantage and the south African teams are currently massively advantaged, they would consider it a disadvantage.

For that reason, and that reason alone, SANZAAR will not go for it. Does anybody think it's an accident that the SA is first in that acronym?

They'll threaten to take their bat 'n' ball and go to Europe to play their rugby.
I'll post that we should let them.
the remaining stakeholders will fold like a cheap lawn chair.

[beige]

One of the original options was basically what's been mentioned above but teams would play everyone in their own conference twice and half the teams from each of the other conferences once. Not sure what happened but it was a lot tidier than what we have now.

[The InnFORCEr]

New Super Rugby teams need time: SANZAAR

AAP
April 29, 2016, 8:11 am


Super Rugby's three expansion sides have performed as well as expected this season as they struggle to adapt to regular travel requirements and the higher intensity of games, according to southern hemisphere rugby's boss Andy Marinos.

The competition was expanded to 18 teams this season with the return of the Kings in South Africa and new entries from Japan (Sunwolves) and Argentina (Jaguares).

With the competition at the halfway stage, all three teams have won only one game each and some of their performances have caused concern that the tournament has expanded too quickly and the new teams lack depth.

"History has shown any new team coming into this competition struggles," SANZAAR chief executive Marinos told reporters on a conference call from Cape Town.

"As much as it's a battle of attrition on the field, the mental fatigue is also pretty significant and that takes time for athletes who haven't been used to it to adapt to the rigours of getting up every single weekend."

The Sunwolves shook off a 92-17 mauling by the Cheetahs two weeks ago to beat Argentina's Jaguares 36-28 last Saturday at Prince Chichibu Stadium.

Crowds have been between 15,000 and 20,000 in Tokyo, while the Jaguares are attracting similar numbers in Buenos Aires, which is "unbelievably good", Marinos said.

"The new teams have added something different. The broadcast reach is also growing ... and that has increased the attractiveness and reach of our product into markets we had not penetrated or had much impact in the past," he added.

One of the concerns was the viewing figures within the traditional markets, which were flat or in decline.

"There was a time when some viewers watched all the games but viewing has become more tribal in terms of following your team," Marinos said. "Obviously, performances on the field are linked to viewing numbers, too."

While the draw had been engineered to lessen some of the travel demands on players it was too early to overhaul the competition, he said.

Administrators would talk to all of the teams, coaches, broadcasters and national unions to discuss their concerns in a strategic overview at the end of the season though they would not make any changes, if any, until the 2018 campaign.

"My view is that we need to give the competition time to bed down," he said.

"(But) if we find ourselves faced with a proposition that is a lot more valuable, maybe we look at a change in the competition, either expanding it, or manipulating the current model that we've got to try and get a different balance or different outcome."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sp...-time-sanzaar/

[jargan83]

I'd say the Sunwolves have performed above expectations without having the results to show for it. Should have beaten the Cheetahs (Round 3) and probably the Bulls (Round 6), have beaten the Jaguares and could probably be sitting on 3 or 4 wins instead of 1.

[sittingbison]

I'd say the Sunwolves have performed above expectations without having the results to show for it. Should have beaten the Cheetahs (Round 3) and probably the Bulls (Round 6), have beaten the Jaguares and could probably be sitting on 3 or 4 wins instead of 1.

don't forget they get another two wins playing the Reds and Tards ........and unfortunately I suspect a third win playing... the Farce

[GIGS20]

I'm not so sure Bison, the Weakness of the Sunwolves appears to be organisation in the pack, I'd suggest that they might struggle against the Reds' set piece, the Force's breakdown pressure and the tahs.....well that's a toss up depending upon which Tahs turn up.

Actually same for the Force, we have shown a Tah-like ability to suck royally despite having the cattle to destroy teams.

Let's go with Reds aren't a lock for them

[Sheikh]

Firstly, apologies for the long post; but there’s quite a lot of work gone into this, but you can skip over the itinerary section at the end if you like – it’s there to show my workings.

I’ve been meaning to investigate this for a while, and some of the articles from journalists (John Connolly’s and the one above) has prompted me to investigate travel of each team.

Note that I’ve ignored inter-country travel, except for travel to and from Perth and the East Coast, because frankly travel within New Zealand, South Africa or along the East Coast it takes <2 hours and doesn’t disrupt preparations, but the ~4000 km, 5 hour flight across Australia basically takes a full day out of your preparations.

The Sunwolves travel the furthest (94,500 km), even without playing matches in Singapore (which would reduce it to 74,500 km), but we travel further (70,000 km) than the Jaguars (68,500 km), a team on their own continent. The Bulls and Stormers, who both travel to both Singapore and Buenos Aires, are the next furthest travellers (60,000 km), followed by the Rebels (56,000 km), the Lions (52,000 km) and the Waratahs (51,000 km). The Reds manage the least travel (30,000 km), with the Crusaders and Blues close behind (32,000 km).

But it’s not just the distance travelled, because once on a jet you can travel a long way quickly. It’s also the amount of journeys and disruption to your body clock from changing time zones. The Sunwolves change time zones 10 times (including getting home at the end), but if they played all their games in Tokyo that would have dropped to 6, because their travel is in 3 blocks. The Cheetahs, Kings, Reds and Sharks all have all their travel in 2 blocks and only change time zones 4 times. The Blues, Crusaders and Lions also travel in 2 blocks, but change time zones 5 times due to their travels taking in more than one country at a time. The Bulls, Brumbies, Highlanders, Jaguars and Stormers travel in 3 blocks. The Chiefs, Hurricanes and Waratahs travel in 4 blocks (8 or 9 time zone changes), and the Force and Rebels travel 5 times (11 time zone changes each), with the Force travelling 30% further than the Rebels.

Then there’s the rest periods where you don’t travel (or travel far). After their early travels the Lions have 13 straight weeks in South Africa. The Waratahs started with 8 straight weeks on the East Coast and the Crusaders now don’t leave NZ. All good for resting players. The teams without at least a 6 week break from travelling are: Brumbies, us, Rebels, Bulls, Sunwolves and Jaguars; but for the Brumbies, Rebels and Bulls they have only a single week trip breaking at least 8 weeks at home, so not so bad. The Jaguars have four blocks of games in a single country to reduce their travelling (3 at home, 1 in SA), and if the Sunwolves played all their matches in Tokyo they’d five 5 straight weeks at home. The Force gets a maximum 4 week break from travelling during the season.

Now travel isn’t the culprit of our poor season – if we had 15 home games this season, I doubt we’d finish in the top half, but I was surprised at the outcome of the amount of travel and just how we seem to be an outlier in all ways of analysing travel.

----------------------
Brumbies: After 2 home games; away to Perth (4000 km) before travel to SA (8,500 km) for 2 weeks and back (12,500 km); four weeks on the East Coast before a 1 week trip to NZ (5000 km round trip); five weeks on the East Coast before another 1 week trip to NZ (5000 km round trip); finish at home: total 35,000 km

Force: 1 week at home; 1 week trip to Brisbane (8000 km round trip); 1 week at home; 3 week trip to NZ (13,000 km round trip); 4 weeks at home; 1 week trip to Tokyo (16,000 km round trip); 1 week at home; 1 week in Melbourne (4000 km); 1 week trip to Bloemfontein (12,500 km there, 8500 km back); 1 week at home; 1 week trip to Canberra (8000 km): total 70,000 km

Rebels: Away to Perth (4000 km) then onto South Africa for a week (8500 km there, 12,500 km home); 1 week at home before a 1 week trip to Tokyo (16,000 km); 5 weeks on the East Coast before a 1 week trip to NZ (5000 km); 2 weeks at home before another 1 week trip to NZ (5000 km); then another 2 weeks at home before another 1 week trip to NZ (5000 km) and then Brisbane: total 56,000 km

Reds: Start with 7 weeks on the East Coast before a 2 week trip to SA (25,000 km round trip), 1 week at home and a 2 week trip to NZ (5000 km) followed by 5 weeks on the East Coast: 30,000 km

Waratahs: 8 weeks on the East Coast before a trip to Perth and then Cape Town (25,000 km round trip); 2 weeks at home; 1 week trip to NZ (5000 km); 1 week at home; 1 week trip to Tokyo (16,000 km); 1 week at home; 1 week trip to NZ (5000 km): total 51,000 km

Blues: 3 weeks in NZ followed by 1 week in Brisbane (5000 km); 6 weeks in NZ before a 3 week trip (2 in SA, 1 in Perth – 12,000 km out, 8,500 km to Perth, 6,500 km to NZ); 4 weeks in NZ: total 32,000 km

Chiefs: 2 weeks in NZ; 1 week in SA (12,000 km); 1 week in Buenos Aires (7,500 km) then home (10,000 km) for a week; 1 week trip to Canberra (5000 km); 7 weeks in NZ; 1 week in Sydney (5000 km); 1 week at home; 1 week in Brisbane (5000 km); 1 week at home: total 44,500 km

Crusaders: 4 weeks in NZ before a 3 week trip (2 in SA, 1 in Perth – 12,000 km out, 8,500 km to Perth, 6,500 km to NZ); 1 week in NZ; 1 week trip to Canberra (5000 km); finish with 8 weeks in NZ: total 32,000 km

Highlanders: 3 weeks in NZ; 2 week trip to Sydney & Melbourne (5000 km); 1 week at home; 1 week trip to Brisbane (5000 km); 7 weeks in NZ; 2 week trip to SA then Buenos Aires (29,500 km round trip); 1 week at home: total 39,500 km

Hurricanes: Start away in Canberra (5000 km) before 6 weeks in NZ; 1 week in Melbourne (5000 km); 1 week home; 2 weeks in SA (24,000 km); 4 weeks at home; 1 week in Sydney (5000 km); 1 week in NZ: total 39,000 km

Bulls: 4 weeks in SA; 1 week trip to Singapore (20,000 km); 4 weeks in SA; 3 week trip to Australia (25,000 km); 2 weeks at home; 1 week trip to Buenos Aires (15,000 km); 2 weeks in SA: total 60,000 km

Cheetahs: 2 weeks at home; 1 week trip to Singapore (20,000 km); 5 weeks in SA; 3 week trip to Australia (25,000 km); 6 weeks at home: total 45,000 km

Kings: 3 weeks at home; 2 weeks in NZ (24,000 km); 4 weeks at home; 1 week trip to Buenos Aires (15,000 km); 7 weeks at home: total 39,000 km

Lions: 1 week in Tokyo followed by 2 in NZ (15,000 km + 10,000 km + 12,000 km); 13 weeks in SA; 1 week trip to Buenos Aires (15,000 km): total 52,000 km

Sharks: 7 weeks in SA; 3 weeks in NZ (24,000 km); 1 week at home; 1 week trip to Buenos Aires (15,000 km); 5 weeks in SA: total 39,000 km

Stormers: 4 weeks in SA; 1 week trip to Buenos Aires (15,000 km); 6 weeks in SA; 1 week trip to Singapore (20,000 km); 2 weeks in SA; 2 week trip to Australia (25,000 km); 1 week at home: total 60,000 km

Jaguars: 2 weeks in SA (15,000 km); 3 weeks at home; 4 week trip of 3 weeks in NZ and 1 in Tokyo (10,000 km + 10,000 km + 18,500 km); 3 weeks at home; 2 weeks in SA (15,000 km); 3 weeks at home: total 68,500 km

Sunwolves: 2 weeks in Tokyo; 1 week in Singapore (10,000 km); 1 week in Tokyo; 1 week in Singapore (5000 km); 3 weeks in SA (10,000 km there, 15,000 km back); 3 weeks in Tokyo; 1 week in Singapore (10,000 km); 2 weeks in Australia (6500 km there, 8000 km back); 1 week in Tokyo; 2 weeks in SA (30,000 km): total 94,500 km

[jono]

C'mon dude- you can't expect us to read all that on a weekend!?! That's what the "work" skin is for isn't it!?!