Hunt impresses at 10 vs Crusaders

[jargan83]

Only injury, or the prospect of a returning James O'Connor, will stop Karmichael Hunt from being given his first Super Rugby start at number 10 after the Reds belted the Crusaders 35-12 in an impressive trial showing at Ballymore.

Hunt was even given the blessing of opposite number Dan Carter as he gave Reds coach Richard Graham the perfect insurance policy as Queensland starts the season without Quade Cooper.

O'Connor hasn't played any rugby since returning to Australia, missing both trials firstly with a knee concern and then tonsillitis. But he does have Wallaby experience at number 10, which could tip the scales in his favour.

But Hunt left everybody with the impression he would be up to the challenge in round one against the Brumbies, delivering 50 minutes of rock-solid rugby behind a dominant pack that gave him every chance to stake his claim.

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/unio...06-138dr8.html

[shasta]

No surprise there. Has done it at elite level in Rugby before. His tactical kicking has always been good and has probably improved in his time at AFL. I said he would be a shot at the Wallaby 10 jersey and I'm still thinking that. I reckon he can match Cooper and Foley in game management and probably shades Foley on defense and all round physicality.

[jono]

He was everywhere last night in the 60 minutes he was on.
The saders appear to be starting the season off the way they always do.

And for the record, "the hill" at Ballymore is a crap place to watch rugby

[GIGS20]

As long as he isn't given the Wallabies jersey before he's proven himself I'll be OK. skills at NRL don't always transfer, skills at AFL are handy but not enough, a couple of games in France don't prove a helluva lot in the Southern Hemisphere.

I know Shasta will say it's anti league bias, but he's proven precisely nothing at the moment, he's had one good game behind a dominant pack against a team which is notorious for starting slowly and taking weak opposition lightly. That game was a trial which means the result is hugely dependent upon the way each coaching group approached the game.

I can say that I'm not as confident about the Force-reds game in round 2, they seem to have found a solution to cooper going down, but I'm not ready to give him a national contract just yet.

[shasta]

Yes, one good game if you discount the season in Biarritz. But I don't really see that as reasonable seeing as after only about 11 games he was starting 10 in a Heineken Cup semi and starting 12 in the final.

Let's see; after SBW, Folau, Ryan Cross, Matt Rogers, Wendell, Lote and others, your face must be running out of room for eggs. At least this time you aren't bagging him out before you see how he goes, I suppose.

Maybe it would be easier to start a list of Mungos who COULDN'T make a decent fist of Rugby at all.

I'll start it for you. Benji Marshall, Timana Tahu (arguable).....ummmm - over to you.

[GIGS20]

Well, if you count Matt Rogers, Wendell and Lote as successes I'm pretty sure we'll never agree, because I would count those as failures, as for Ryan cross, I'd place him in the arguable basket.......so with all the names you have quoted I get two who I would call a success (or at least worth the hype) surely you can agree that isn't a great strike rate.

As for a season in France not being evidence of guaranteed value in Super Rugby, I would point to all the Australian players who can't get a Super Rugby contract, but seem to have no trouble making some coin in Europe.

I'm not saying he's going to fail....indications are good, but given the litany of failed experiments from League to Union, I wouldn't be putting the cart before the horse as often as you do!

[andrewg]

Hunt looked good in his 60 minutes, BUT it's the media beat-up that gets me.
In the last week Fox Rugby website has had 11 articles on the Reds with 6 of them on Hunt - BEFORE he played the trial match.

For the record other features articles as follows:

Waratahs x 2
Brumbies x 2
Rebels x 1
Force x 1

I have no hassles with good players transferring from League. In most instances the hype hasn't been matched by the performance or the character defects (Tuqiri) have come to the fore. They have been generally short-lived in Union and of questionable value to the game.

However, I have big problems with players like Folau getting paid an extra $1 million per year as it's a real slap in the face to those who have shown a long-term commitment to Union.

[Tonkar]

Hi Andrew you and I on the same page

However, I have big problems with players like Folau and others getting paid an extra big $$$$$ per year as it's a real slap in the face to those who have shown a long-term commitment to Union.

[Petalz]

Hi Andrew you and I on the same page

Gotta look at the long term goals of why the 'headline' players are given the contract boosts and why they are at the clubs they are at.
If throwing 2 mil @ 2 players gets 3-4 back in excess revenue during the course of their contracts it's an overall win.
Given the state of the financials at the moment the ARU needs to be going anything and everything they can to turn it around.
Doing something is better than nothing. They might go down, but they'll go down swinging.

Is it fair that they are centred in the eastern states? Probably not. But WA needs to get more players to warrant the same concessions. IF the potential for WA to get the cash by luring someone from the AFL is there it'll be acted on - provided he didn't play at essendon a few years ago

[shasta]

I have no hassles with good players transferring from League. In most instances the hype hasn't been matched by the performance or the character defects (Tuqiri) have come to the fore.

However, I have big problems with players like Folau getting paid an extra $1 million per year as it's a real slap in the face to those who have shown a long-term commitment to Union.

I'd agree that the financials are more than a little frustrating at times. The treatment of Nick Cummins a case in point.

I'll leave out the off-field antics. There are as many among the current crop of Gen Y's. Not saying they should be ignored but the powers that hire them have to sort out that aspect. Caveat Emptor.

I definitely don't agree about the success rate, unless you only count those who become "Super Stars":

Wendell Sailor. 6 seasons. 55 Super Rugby caps. 55 Test Matches
Lote Tuquiri. 7 seasons. 107 SR. 67 Tests.
Matt Rogers. 5 seasons. 40 SR. 45 Tests. (99 Injuries.)
Ryan Cross. 5 seasons. 64 SR. 19 Tests.

Timana Tahu. 2 seasons. 20 SR. 2 Tests. (Sucess rate arguable depending on size of contract. But I'd like to have been so unsuccessful)

To say these were failures is incorrect. Anyone doing that obviously has an axe to grind. There are plenty of other Mungos who have made a successful swap to RU without necessarily starring at International level. Andrew Walker, Brad Thorn, Shontayne Hape, Cooper Vuna, Peter Ryan, Mark Gasnier, Craig Gower, Jason Robinson, Henry Paul, Clint Shifckoske, Andy Farrell.

For the record I was just as interested in seeing how Rugby players converted to RL over the years. Mostly they were just as successful. Ricky Stuart, Michael O'Connor, Ray Price, John Kirwan, John Timu, Jonathan Davies, Kevin Ryan, Rex Mossop........to name a few.

I hope the current crop, even Sam Burgess, can be just as successful. I like to see people succeed. On and off the park.

Now GIGS lets see that list of flops.

[andrewg]

Gotta look at the long term goals of why the 'headline' players are given the contract boosts and why they are at the clubs they are at.

Aaah the old "Have patience Grasshopper, one day, if you continue to seek and wait for wisdom, you will understand why wiser men than you do what they do!" argument........

There is no proof to me that throwing totally out-of-whack payments to a few makes any difference in income for the ARU and that this difference in income is worth the impact on regular players of the game. Particularly when the big payments coincide with robbing grass-roots and intermediate grade rugby in all States.

@ Shasta
There is no doubt in my mind that BECAUSE of the size of the payments some from your list were played when their performance didn't justify selection at the cost of losing players to overseas who saw no future in the game that they had played from their childhood.

In most instances the people you've listed never showed the complete skill-set required for their positions. Folau is a good example. Full Back but an ineffective and unreliable kick. Despite his time in the AFL (another joke and indication of "player for hire").

Folau's incentive payment wasn't reduced last year when ALL Wallaby match payments were reduced by 30%. Cooper's incentive payment wasn't reduced when he was struggling to get on the pitch. While other loyal Wallaby players lose their top-ups.

Then again, maybe I've just got a deeply engrained sense of fairness and a hate for the inequities associated with prima donnas - especially in team sports.

[shasta]

Like I said, the financials are frustrating. Hard to quantify. But I tend to think, like you seem to do, that they don't add up. Contracting is an on-going dogs breakfast.

[Tonkar]

Just a final word from me.. I watch a lot of world rugby, Rugby 7s and rugby shows.. To this day you don't see many if any Izzy's in the crowd ,, Carmicheal Hunts or many other players...

But How many blonde wigs and blackhead bands are there world wide in the crowd..

I also have friends in WA and around the world ( Even Yanks who know nothing about rugby ) and most relate rugby to a honey badger ... even some of their kids wanna score meat pies and they don't play rugby...
The ARU marketing department has let a brand go that would have AU rugby on top for show ponies..

I rest my case

[GIGS20]

Wendell Sailor. 6 seasons. 55 Super Rugby caps. 55 Test Matches
Lote Tuquiri. 7 seasons. 107 SR. 67 Tests.
Matt Rogers. 5 seasons. 40 SR. 45 Tests. (99 Injuries.)
Ryan Cross. 5 seasons. 64 SR. 19 Tests.

Timana Tahu. 2 seasons. 20 SR. 2 Tests. (Sucess rate arguable depending on size of contract. But I'd like to have been so unsuccessful)

I think I know where you and I differ Shasta, you obviously seem to feel that merely pulling on a gold jersey is enough to call a bloke sipuccessful, however I (knowing that the majority of the deals which see League stars come to union are bankrolled buy the ARU) feel that these boys need to EARN the caps that they get.

You can't say that every cap won by Wendell, Lote, Matty Rogers and Timana Tahu resulted in a successful result for the Wallabies can you? It really means nothing when a bloke who hasn't played any rugby in Australia before being contracted by the ARU gets a role I the first international of the year, because the ARU are just trying to recoup some of the money from their input to the contract by using the players drawing power with league fans. I don't think it can be a coincidence that the malaise of the Wallabies has coincided with this short-sighted approach. The longer term view would aim to get the best person on the field with the ultimate result being wins on the board. Most of these boys (even Israel Folau to an extent) have been played whilst out of form and that has resulted in my current view that they don't have to earn their spots.

Karmichael Hunt might well end up earning a spot in the Wallabies, but until he shows enough to actually PROVE that he is one of the best three 10s in Australia. And a walk up start into a team which is giving him 600k proves nothing to me!

[shasta]

I think I know where you and I differ Shasta, you obviously seem to feel that merely pulling on a gold jersey is enough to call a bloke sipuccessful, however I (knowing that the majority of the deals which see League stars come to union are bankrolled buy the ARU) feel that these boys need to EARN the caps that they get.

You can't say that every cap won by Wendell, Lote, Matty Rogers and Timana Tahu resulted in a successful result for the Wallabies can you? It really means nothing when a bloke who hasn't played any rugby in Australia before being contracted by the ARU gets a role I the first international of the year, because the ARU are just trying to recoup some of the money from their input to the contract by using the players drawing power with league fans.

Your theory would seem to say that those players wete contracted for up to 7 years and selected ahead of more deserving players, under 3 different coaches and selectors to get RL bums on seats. Really?
Wendell Sailor did not debut until his second Super Rugby season. I believe they were selected and had multiple contract renewals because the people qualified to make those calls thought they were the best available at the time. Although I'd agree that initially there was some PR value as well. Their match stats tended to say so too, despite not having a complete set of Rugby skills.

You, of course disagree. And probably will continue to do, no matter what Hunt, Folau and others achieve. Fair enough.