PERTH SPIRIT READY FOR MELBOURNE RISING

[travelling_gerry]

They need a bollocking at half time, losing their good early structures.

[westies man]

Again I'll spell it out, Foley is making the Force lads a bunch of princesses. As long as he is allowed to molly coddle these paid professionals and continuously wrap them up in cotton wool the mental toughness required to be a truly competitive squad will again be found wanting come business end as we found out this season. There would be fuck all if any players going round in club rugby that Foley would be having a serious look at so stop fucking around and whack out the best players every week.

[G_Beard]

Again I'll spell it out, Foley is making the Force lads a bunch of princesses. As long as he is allowed to molly coddle these paid professionals and continuously wrap them up in cotton wool the mental toughness required to be a truly competitive squad will again be found wanting come business end as we found out this season. There would be fuck all if any players going round in club rugby that Foley would be having a serious look at so stop fucking around and whack out the best players every week.

Happy with anyone ever?????

[westies man]

My one and only agenda is the survival and growth of rugby in this state, end of story. I call it as I see it.

[G_Beard]

By telling anyone and everyone how, in your opinion, it's run badly, by the wrong people, in the wrong place, in the wrong way at every given opportunity.

[westies man]

By my reckoning there are another 3 posters on this thread who feel exactly as I do. Not too sure why you keep singling me out but answer me this, have you been in contact recently with someone who posts on this forum regularly and between you and him decided to try and isolate me because of my outspoken views that you clearly disagree with.
I would stake anything that is exactly what happened irrespective of whether you admit it or not.
Anyway back to the game and I'll bet if you asked Ollie he wouldn't have minded a bit more starch behind him at scrum time.
Same as Brad Lacey who was unmarked and the player inside him had neither the sleight of hand nor quickness of mind to transfer a simple ball and butchered a try.
Mediocrity might be okay for people like yourself but in a state that is ranked around number 4 or 5 again the top liners should be put out every week to gain credibility.
You can get as personal as you like G Beard but if you don't agree with me remember it's only my opinion which may or may not not be your view, either way your comments aren't going to stop me

[G_Beard]

Wow....there is the presumption that you throw into every comment.
I don't collude with anyone about you, that's such a victim/ petty whinging assumption.
Christ dude, boo hoo poor you.
So if I call it as I see it.....okay......

[valzc]

Proud of the guys on that game - great to see some names I've heard of and haven't had the chance to see play. Who's the guy with the man bun? Thought he was quick off the foot when he had a couple of chances. But very frustrating with penalties and they looked good WHEN THEY KEPT THE FEKKIN BALL IN HAND!!!!!!! WILL WE EVER GET THE BLOODY CHIP KICK BANNED FFS!!!! Everytime they had possession EFFIN kick it back! Should've got that try with Rising's guy in the bin, too soft at the line & rumbling doesn't always do it hence Zack's hink for that last try, defo showing some class. Really thought some great skills there, just need to keep consistent for the whole game not just in patches. But then they WERE playing the Rebels!

[andrewg]

Can't agree with the bitching about the make-up of the Spirit team.

1. It was a team like this which defeated the Vikings in the first NRC game.
2. After 50 minutes the score line was Rising18:16 Spirit. Rising def Brisbane 79:18. I reckon the Spirit did very well and played some good rugby. The YC didn't help our cause.
3. The home game included a lot of normal Force starters I'm sure at the request of the Wallabies Coach. Players such as Hodgo needed some game time and others like Kyle, Tet and Tess were requested to show their stuff prior to joining the Wallabies in training for the week in Perth.
4. EVERYBODY would be bitching if the local guys weren't getting a run and chance to show their stuff. Our complaints soon flow if there are too many or too few. None of us could agree here on the right number or balance. We should just accept that the coaches know what they are doing. Who amongst us have coached at this or SXV level?
5. IMO the more local guys who get exposure in the NRC the better. The focus should be on providing a competitive team every game. I don't think it should be in winning every game as that would dictate playing the max number of Force players.
6. There is a big gap between Perth's best comp and SXV rugby. IMO the more local guys who get to appreciate what's needed to bridge this gap the better. My impression from TWC is that many people doubt the size of this gap. IMO it's huge!!
7. Last year, Foley had the Force focus on bulking up in the 6 weeks following the Force's out from the comp. It was all body building and no aerobic work at all. There may be a similar focus this year for some of the squad (e.g Steenkamp) as well as specific strengthening for those who suffered some extended/niggling injuries. This program saw Ben McC put on 5kg and play a hell of a lot better for it.
8. Some regular Force players were never going to play in the NRC and it's unreasonable for us to expect them to show. They need a break - esp those who didn't get a break due to injuries taking away their replacements. Players such as Alby M went from SXV last year straight to ITM, returned to SXV pre-season without any break. IMO the longer the recovery time for his ankle the better!! Players like Hodgo played every minute of every game (except for his YC) and thank goodness he did as we had no real replacement. If he wasn't in the Wallabies I reckon he'd only be playing the home games (and maybe for only 40 minutes).
9. I don't think that it's a case of molly-coddling the Force players. More of a case of letting the locals show what they have got.
10. The NRC is a chance to test the capabilities of the Leadership Group as someone has to be groomed to take over from Hodgo.
11. In today's team there 9 players from the normal Force squad, WTG and EPS plus a number of others who have been part of the squad previously.
12. Players like Ollie don't have to show what they have - he's just been signed on for 3 years. I'd much rather see Chris H justify his contract and players such as Dillyn Leyds show us what he can do in this better comp.
13. IMO the coaches are getting it right and I'm looking forward to the make-up and showcase of local rugby in the 2 home games that are left.

I'm in no position to comment on what RWA should be doing to support the local teams and clubs but from my observation from getting around to most clubs the Force is already doing a lot.

I thinks it's counterproductive for Michael Foley and his assistants to be copping flack due to peoples' frustrations with RWA.

[Tonkar]

I do agree with Val tho we have a kicking culture that has its place but not as much as we find the players doing ( sometime predicable )

In the NRC it would be good to see some running rugby and if it works good but they will learn what works and we will see players toughness and skills by running it

[AndyS]

Sorry andrewg, we don't disagree much but I guess we do a lot on this.

1. It was a team like this which defeated the Vikings in the first NRC game.
2. After 50 minutes the score line was Rising18:16 Spirit. Rising def Brisbane 79:18. I reckon the Spirit did very well and played some good rugby. The YC didn't help our cause.

Agreed, you don't think at that point they might have learned something by having some experienced professional heads around them to show the way forward?

3. The home game included a lot of normal Force starters I'm sure at the request of the Wallabies Coach. Players such as Hodgo needed some game time and others like Kyle, Tet and Tess were requested to show their stuff prior to joining the Wallabies in training for the week in Perth.

Indeed....what are they doing this week? Are they pressing their claims and practicing their skills, or sitting around drinking coffee and playing the "what if" game?

4. EVERYBODY would be bitching if the local guys weren't getting a run and chance to show their stuff. Our complaints soon flow if there are too many or too few. None of us could agree here on the right number or balance. We should just accept that the coaches know what they are doing. Who amongst us have coached at this or SXV level?
5. IMO the more local guys who get exposure in the NRC the better. The focus should be on providing a competitive team every game. I don't think it should be in winning every game as that would dictate playing the max number of Force players.

As you say, opinions will vary as to what the appropriate number is. But I'm not sure the coaches necessarily are the criteria - their focus is what is best for the Force and that may well not align with what is best for players/sponsors/broadcasters/the ARU. More to the point; any code, anywhere - I can't even imagine the splashback on any team that publically said that they were tanking a match because winning was not a priority. It openly makes a mockery of the competition and the Spirit is riding well close to the line.

6. There is a big gap between Perth's best comp and SXV rugby. IMO the more local guys who get to appreciate what's needed to bridge this gap the better. My impression from TWC is that many people doubt the size of this gap. IMO it's huge!!

It is, but how is throwing them all in the deep end going to help? It is one thing to show people the size of the problem, another to give them a guideline to the answer. It is a huge gap, so surely it is better to ease the very best prospects into it alongside those that know the way across. The guys from the ETS/EPS...maybe not those guys yet.

7. Last year, Foley had the Force focus on bulking up in the 6 weeks following the Force's out from the comp. It was all body building and no aerobic work at all. There may be a similar focus this year for some of the squad (e.g Steenkamp) as well as specific strengthening for those who suffered some extended/niggling injuries. This program saw Ben McC put on 5kg and play a hell of a lot better for it.

Maybe, but what I saw last week was a team that had forgotten how to do anything but defend. That seems to be the bedrock on which the Force is built; fair enough. But when exactly do the team get to practice what to do with the ball that that strategy suddenly makes available? In truth, apart from the occasional loose ball in space and the HB, turnover ball last year seemed such a surprise it was mostly kicked away (I wish I could say to touch). We did surprisingly well considering, but do you think next year we'll surprise anyone if we can't offer something more in attack?

8. Some regular Force players were never going to play in the NRC and it's unreasonable for us to expect them to show. They need a break - esp those who didn't get a break due to injuries taking away their replacements. Players such as Alby M went from SXV last year straight to ITM, returned to SXV pre-season without any break. IMO the longer the recovery time for his ankle the better!! Players like Hodgo played every minute of every game (except for his YC) and thank goodness he did as we had no real replacement. If he wasn't in the Wallabies I reckon he'd only be playing the home games (and maybe for only 40 minutes).
9. I don't think that it's a case of molly-coddling the Force players. More of a case of letting the locals show what they have got.

Need a break my a***. They didn't even make the finals; they've played 16 games the whole year. That is not even half the games players play in the NH. Injuries are one thing, but the rest can hardly claim to be burnt out. All their opposite numbers from across the ditch and ocean are out doing the hard yards for their Cup teams; it is hard to see it as anything but mollycoddling that ours are on home duties.

10. The NRC is a chance to test the capabilities of the Leadership Group as someone has to be groomed to take over from Hodgo.

Really...so we think it is Rory that will be taking over from Matt? If we were testing the leadership group, surely we would be playing some (any) of the Force leadership group to see if they have what it takes...?

11. In today's team there 9 players from the normal Force squad, WTG and EPS plus a number of others who have been part of the squad previously.
12. Players like Ollie don't have to show what they have - he's just been signed on for 3 years. I'd much rather see Chris H justify his contract and players such as Dillyn Leyds show us what he can do in this better comp.

Let's face it, in reality nine players from the EPS/ETS and bench. Ollie might be signed but he has had what, ten minutes from the bench in the games he's played? When exactly does he get the chance to actually have a crack for eighty minutes and show what he's got, if not in this comp? We are grooming his replacement before he's even had a shot.

13. IMO the coaches are getting it right and I'm looking forward to the make-up and showcase of local rugby in the 2 home games that are left.

That doesn't help your point though...indications are that it will be the Force lads at home rather than the local players. I would assume it is about the gate, but doesn't half highlight that we are setting ourselves up as the England of the NRC.

It is not a frustration with RWA so much as a disquiet about their approach to this competition. Particularly so having watched the game tonight, where we were pretty comfortably dished by a strong Melbourne side. IMO the Force has long suffered from a preconception about being the weak team, particularly in the minds of the refs. I worry we are already setting up the same dynamic with the Spirit, and as the old saying goes you only get one first impression. Frankly, as good as our performance has actually been so far (the home game aside), it has given all the appearances of an understrength and outclassed outfit. Shaking that impression could take seasons. On top of being seen as taking the proverbial wrt the comp as a whole, I'm not sure we're striking many of the right notes so far.

[SNOB]

I know the idea is to blood up and coming players but to put up a team that has very little to no chance hurts!
Everyone above has valid points and the problem is we all seem to want something different out of the NRC.
Personally by mid second half I could have tuned off and walked away, what will or does a sponsor fell like? What do those up and comers feel like? What does a prospective new fan feel like?
I hope and want this competition to be a success and to do that we need good sponsors and FANs if losing is ok we are not going pick up any new ones. It will just be the few TWF who have stayed since the beginning.
Yes please blood new blood but in a strong squad!
It's not the taking part it's the winning!

[Alison]

What we appear to have is one team intent on winning the comp by stacking their side with S15 grade players (Rising) and others who are using the comp as a bridge between club rugby and S15 rugby by picking the best players from club rugby and mixing them with a few S15 grade players.

I don't know what the original intent of the comp was supposed to be, but I think the Spirit have taken the right approach. What's the point of setting up a 3rd tier comp and filling it with mainly 2nd tier players? In my view the 3rd tier should be a feeder to the S15 comp, not a training run for it. That said, there does need to be some S15 grade players in there to set the bar for the club players to reach for.

[andrewg]

Thanks AndyS

A more constructive discussion than where this thread had been heading.

I reckon making Rory captain is as much about getting him to focus on what he could be (and we've seen glimpses of that) by giving him the added responsibility. He's not helping the team by constantly being penalised or frequently YC'd.

Other points are probably best discussed over a beer at Rockingham or Joondalup.

[palitu]

I do not have a problem with blooding players, or taking SR players in and out, but i want to see a more consistent team.

How many players do they want to blood in the season?

Have a core team of players, and try to develop the positions. keep the same tight head starting for instance, or the same 9-10 pair, even if they are kyle and JT. But give the guys a fighting chance to win a game. you cannot build consistency/structure whilst continually changing the team. Use the state teams to through together teams, but i firmly believe that having 15 new faces in the team week in week out is not the way the competition was supposed to run.

get yourself a run on team, then make small modifications as you go.