JOONDALUP 1STS TO PLAY 2ND GRADE NEXT YEAR?

[The Oracle]

I think you would be proven correct.

I was thinking that it seems to be the only way that the matter would be resolved.

[westies man]

Our reserve grade play Arks next Thursday night out there but common sense would dictate that we play someone close like Joondalup but spare a thought for Neddies,they play Mandurah at Mandurah,not that a Thursday night bus trip would be such a bad thing

[zed]

why not?

It works in the UK. But for it to work in WA, they would have to do a lot of restructuring. If Arks beat Wanneroo 1st grade in a play off and were promoted, they would have teams in grades 1, 2 and 3. Perhaps they could field a competitive side in Prems, but it's a big ask to be able to have teams competitive in all 3 grades. It's the same problem Joondalup are facing. If their 3rd grade side played Nedlands 3rd grade side they would lose by over 100 points. If a club has Premiership aspirations, it's in their best interests and rugbys best interests for it to be done gradually. i.e their top team gets promoted to 2nd grade and go from there.

[BillyGOAT]

It works in the UK. But for it to work in WA, they would have to do a lot of restructuring. If Arks beat Wanneroo 1st grade in a play off and were promoted, they would have teams in grades 1, 2 and 3. Perhaps they could field a competitive side in Prems, but it's a big ask to be able to have teams competitive in all 3 grades. It's the same problem Joondalup are facing. If their 3rd grade side played Nedlands 3rd grade side they would lose by over 100 points. If a club has Premiership aspirations, it's in their best interests and rugbys best interests for it to be done gradually. i.e their top team gets promoted to 2nd grade and go from there.

you could leave the other grades as they are and have internal promotion of players up into their respective top grade and have premier and championship leagues in a promotion/relegation whether direct or after a playoff between top of champ and bottom of prem.

[Piston]

Zed absolutely unbelievable from a team that has surrendered 270 points in seven games ,played seven lost seven . I am not interested in Joondalup but how can someone from a club playing in this seasons premiership (and dont give me the we are giving the youth an oppertunity bull) with a team made up of lower grade players be dishing out advice to other clubs. Someone tell me what the difference is between Wanneroo and Rockinghams prem teams this year and why one has been singled out .

No one denied Rocky should not be in Prems, but there certainly is a question whether their other sides were good enough for 2nds and 4ths.

When you look at the Prem sides from both clubs then Rocky seems stronger. Rocky always have a good 15, but if/when they get injuries they don't have the depth to fill those gaps. That's where the difference is between the 2 clubs. Wanneroo have lots of players, teams in all competitions. They might not be the strongest, apart from their 18's and 20's (and have been the last couple of years), but their senior teams are competitive.

Wanneroo is building a future on their strong 18's and 20's and good on them. What is Rocky building/banking their future on?

If Rocky stays competitive in the Prems then they should be allowed to play in the Prems. The challenge for them would be how to ensure they stay competitive with no 20's/18's and no quality lower grade players.

[Ralto]

Is there any reason why there couldn't be a promotion / relegation game at the end of this season?

If it was held this week it would be between ARKS and Wanneroo. Interesting.

If there was a relegation/promotion system there would be no way a club or team would allow some of the efforts I've seen this season. I think that sort of desperation would be welcome, and in a lot of cases a bit of struggle would really mould the club spirit that's needed here in a few cases. A seasoin of "rebuilding" could see you spending a year or so plying your rugby in the backblocks.

[Darkness]

A seasoin of "rebuilding" could see you spending a year or so plying your rugby in the backblocks.

You mean like in Wanneroo!


Ha Ha ha

Go Neddies

[Political BS]

I watched four of the old promotion relegation games and missed one. In the other year Wanneroo as the top District Club had the opportunity to challenge ARKS but chose to not challenge.
The results were embarrassing for the challenging teams. None of them got to within 50 points of the bottom Premier grade team.
The odds were stacked in favour of the challengers to a large extent because the challengers were playing through the finals whereas the Prem Club had four weeks off before the challenge matches. The Challenge games were played after Grand Finals for obvious reasons.
Did'nt RWA try and introduce a Cup competition this year to encourage regular games between Prem 2nds and Champs 1sts so they could test their standard and improve to a higher standard over time. An excellent idea that got watered down when two clubs chucked a hissy fit. Much better way to compare standards over time than a one off challenge match.
Back then the challengers usually only played two grades where the Prem Club played four. If any of them had ever won the challenge they were on a hiding to nothing next year as they simply had neither quality or the numbers.
Now we have the Championship with 3 grades they have an opportunity to build numbers and with a decent Cup Comp they would have had the opportunity to improve their talent base as well.

[BillyGOAT]

how long ago were these "old promotion relegation games"? from a championship players point of view if they have slogged all year for the opportunity to play a premiership team (against good teams with maybe a force player) to perhaps play a higher standard of rugby its definitely worth it even if it is a 50 point game, it at least would show them how much work is to be done the following year. playing a cup comp was a good idea till it fell apart, but even then playing reserve grade at best (no prem players allowed) which i would guess would be about the level of the top championship teams. how much can a champ team improve if playing 4/5 cup games a year against teams which may/may not be that much better?

[wholetruth]

The odds were stacked in favour of the challengers to a large extent

Not when it came to points awarded for the wins that were heavily weighted in favour of the Premier Grade side from First Grade - as it was then - down to Colts. If I remember ARKS didn't have Colts and even though Wanneroo got the forfeit from that and won a couple of the lower grade games they couldn't accumulate enough points. As you pointed out, because ARKS simply had more numbers (because they were fielding more competition teams) they rolled out a completely fresh team for First Grade whereas Wanneroo was doubling up players.
All ARKS had to do was win that game and one other and they were home and safe

[zed]

The odds were stacked in favour of the challengers to a large extent

Not when it came to points awarded for the wins that were heavily weighted in favour of the Premier Grade side from First Grade - as it was then - down to Colts. If I remember ARKS didn't have Colts and even though Wanneroo got the forfeit from that and won a couple of the lower grade games they couldn't accumulate enough points. As you pointed out, because ARKS simply had more numbers (because they were fielding more competition teams) they rolled out a completely fresh team for First Grade whereas Wanneroo was doubling up players.
All ARKS had to do was win that game and one other and they were home and safe

Yup. The odds were definitely not stacked in favour of the challengers. I played 2 1/2 games that day some guys played 3 games. We didn't stand a chance. A more cynical person would say WARU engineered it that way

[Political BS]

Dear Wholetruth,
Get it right. The Colts never played in Challenges. A Club which had Colts was automatically awarded points. So there was no Colts forfeit. If ARKS had Colts they would have been given points as well. So all square after Colts..... ??
The 3 games that were played were 1st 2nds and 3rds. Wanneroo won 2nds and lost the 1sts and 3rds. Just to be clear Wanneroo lost 2 out of 3. Did the Club which won two games deserve to stay up or should it have been replaced by the Club which won one game regardless of the points arrangement. However as I recall the points Wanneroo could have taken the day had they won the 3rds. They did'nt and had to suck it up and wait another year to challenge again.
As I recall the 1st grade ARKS v Wanneroo, ARKS raced out to a match winning lead scoring three trys after 15 or so minutes and had a guy sent off. Played the rest of the game with 14 players and went on to a 50+ points to nil win.
The Challenge games were a test of relative club strength. Wanneroo got done in that test at that time. The Club was not as strong as the club they were trying to replace. Same for Southern Lions v Rocky the two years they played.

[zed]

Dear Wholetruth,
Get it right. The Colts never played in Challenges. A Club which had Colts was automatically awarded points. So there was no Colts forfeit. If ARKS had Colts they would have been given points as well. So all square after Colts..... ??
The 3 games that were played were 1st 2nds and 3rds. Wanneroo won 2nds and lost the 1sts and 3rds. Just to be clear Wanneroo lost 2 out of 3. Did the Club which won two games deserve to stay up or should it have been replaced by the Club which won one game regardless of the points arrangement. However as I recall the points Wanneroo could have taken the day had they won the 3rds. They did'nt and had to suck it up and wait another year to challenge again.
As I recall the 1st grade ARKS v Wanneroo, ARKS raced out to a match winning lead scoring three trys after 15 or so minutes and had a guy sent off. Played the rest of the game with 14 players and went on to a 50+ points to nil win.
The Challenge games were a test of relative club strength. Wanneroo got done in that test at that time. The Club was not as strong as the club they were trying to replace. Same for Southern Lions v Rocky the two years they played.

Wanneroo only had two teams and our 2nd team was more of a golden oldies. The whole promotion/relegation thing was a farce, of course Wanneroo were going to lose. WARU knew we only had two teams yet we were required to play 3 games, figure that out. By the time Arks ran onto the pitch in their pristine white and cherry jerseys for the first grade game our '1st grade' had already played at least 1 game, some had played 2. It should have never been about who was the strongest team on the day, it should have been about which club was better positioned to be in the premiership and that was Wanneroo. We had good numbers, strong in juniors & colts and Arks were struggling, exemplified by their drop down to 3rd grade shortly after.

[goony]

It should have never been about who was the strongest team on the day, it should have been about which club was better positioned to be in the premiership and that was Wanneroo. We had good numbers, strong in juniors & colts and Arks were struggling, exemplified by their drop down to 3rd grade shortly after.

Numbers can't have been that good if some had to play two games on the day?

I don't know too much about this as i wasn't involved, but i can see Wanneroo being one of the strongest clubs in the not too distant future - they have such a large catchment area, and with their constant improvements as a club e.g: their own gym, better clubrooms, investing in their younger players etc, they should have a solid foundation to build from.

[zed]

Numbers can't have been that good if some had to play two games on the day?

.

We only had two teams. We had requested a third team that season, but were knocked back, and the promotion game was played well after the season had ended, half the club was on holidays. No excuses, even if we'd had out full strength side, that would still have lost against Arks 1st grade.