Tip Tackles

[brokendown gunfighter]

Them was the days eh Gunny They have taken all the fun out of the game the soft nellies.

bring back RUCKING

[The Oracle]

The “high” tackle as being referred to by Oracle is above the line of shoulders.

I would be interested to hear Ecky's view on what defines a High Tackle.

[Ecky]

Well that's mighty nice of you to say so

When explaining what I class as a high tackle I refer to that bit at the front of the players' jersey where the "v" shape is at the neckline. Maybe it has buttons, maybe not. (much easier to just point it out on my ref jersey when talking to the players...) Anyway, the lower part of that is the cut-off point. Anything higher than that is a high tackle.

You might also consider what a very good ref said to me when I was first starting (Jeff the ref): he referred to the nipple line. If you draw an imaginary line from nipple to nipple (don't actually draw it - the players generally seem uncomfortable if you do that) then any tackle above that is a high tackle.

Bear in mind that the tackle may start off lower but then slide up. This is bad luck and is a high tackle. If the intent of the tackler is to go low then it would not slide up. So the intent of staying high gets penalised.

In the event that I ref U/19 and below then I also tell them grabbing of the collar is high.

One trusts this is what you were seeking. I am here all week, so feel free etc etc

[Kev]

Hmmm ... given that hardly any playing shirt has buttons any more and most are round 'collar', this would appear somewhat obsolete ... my last advice this season was armpit line .... an update perhaps from the ref ?

[Ecky]

Armpit line - nipple line - unless you're playing 4ths and have a weight issue, it's pretty much same same, yes?

PLUS - when doing seniors I don't actually explain in pre-match what a high tacke is. There are too many other, more important, things to discuss. If/when it happens in a game there's not usually too many arguments when the penalty comes.

(ps note this forum was originally about tip tackles; not high tackles...)

[GIGS20]

It's all a rich tapestry Ecky

[RugbyRef]

Surely to have a better understanding of the game, you must under stand how refs are taught to apply the laws?

If you just read the law and don't think about how it needs to be applied, you enevitably get stupidity. We are generally consistent as a group, what is inconsistent is the understanding of the law by those who we referee.

How many players/coaches get refs to come to training sessions, or do law nights with players so they can ask questions and get that sort of understanding?

I have always offered, very rarely gets accepted.

Here's a challenge:

go to http://www.learnrugbyunionlaws.com and answer the first 20 questions, and see how many you get right (put a screenshot up if you are up for it).

Don't have a law book, or app or website open, do it off your head, and do it quickly as a ref would. No pondering for 5 minutes to think about it.

See how you do.

[GIGS20]

Question reference 272 is wrong

[palitu]

20 of 25 correct.

[DinkyDi]

10 out of 10 Correct: 100%
A. release the ball
B. pass the ball
C. hold the ball
D. defend the ball

After 2 mins

SO - as I am now a fully qualified ref - I have to disagree with your interpretation of a tip tackle when an attacking player with ball in hand (not whilst receiving a kick) jumps and is tackled over the defenders shoulder causing his legs to go past the horizontal. Technically it is a tip tackle but practically and under Newtonian Physics, a larger mass jumping and hitting a smaller mass is a) going to be messy and b)momentum will cause his legs to fly up.

All I ask is that the refs use some common sense in this case. I, in no way condone, tip tackles but in this case Newton is not wrong.

[zed]

Well said Dinkydi - spot on.

[RugbyRef]

10 out of 10 Correct: 100%
A. release the ball
B. pass the ball
C. hold the ball
D. defend the ball

After 2 mins

SO - as I am now a fully qualified ref - I have to disagree with your interpretation of a tip tackle when an attacking player with ball in hand (not whilst receiving a kick) jumps and is tackled over the defenders shoulder causing his legs to go past the horizontal. Technically it is a tip tackle but practically and under Newtonian Physics, a larger mass jumping and hitting a smaller mass is a) going to be messy and b)momentum will cause his legs to fly up.

All I ask is that the refs use some common sense in this case. I, in no way condone, tip tackles but in this case Newton is not wrong.

You example is not a tip tackle, the fact one person claims on here they were yellow carded for it is unfortunate if true, but we only have one side of the story. It may be classed as dangerous (whether you penalise the ball carrier for jumping into a tackle or the tackler for creating the dangerous momentum depends on what you see, no point speculating on what it might have been on a forum). Most of the time I would penalise the jumper.

Tip tackle must have the 5 to be a tip tackle.

1, Tackler Stationary
2, Tackler Grab ball carrier below hips.
3, Tackler Lifts upwards
4, Tackler twists to put players legs past horizontal (intent not needed!)
5, Tackler drops or drives ball carrier on to his head.neck/upper back.

[RugbyRef]

Question reference 272 is wrong

No it isn't. But this is a typical example of a law that referees are expected to know but the masses don't understand.

For everyone else's benefit, Question is below:


Question 1 - Type: Scenario Question
Question Reference Number: 272
Gold kicks-off and Blue #12 receives the ball. Blue #12 is immediately held by Gold #5 and a maul forms. The ball does not emerge. What do you do?

A. Nothing; play on.
B. Award a penalty kick to Blue.
C. Award a scrum, with Blue throwing-in.
D. Award a scrum, with Gold throwing-in.

[RumourMonger]

That's easy

C. Award a scrum, with Blue throwing-in.

I thought everyone knew that.

Well everyone except Gigsy, Dinki Di and Zed apparently.

[zed]

Tip tackle must have the 5 to be a tip tackle.

1, Tackler Stationary
2, Tackler Grab ball carrier below hips.
3, Tackler Lifts upwards
4, Tackler twists to put players legs past horizontal (intent not needed!)
5, Tackler drops or drives ball carrier on to his head.neck/upper back.

Cool. In that case my sin bin was not a tip tackle, dangerous tackle I suppose.