ARU Third Tier Comp Summit

[Burgs]

Talks kick off but clubs offside

By Ben Kimber
Monday, May 29, 2006

NSWRU chief executive Fraser Neill has called on Sydney's clubs to park their "paranoia" at the door and embrace the process aimed at securing a third-tier rugby future for Australia that begins today.

About 70 representatives of the various stakeholders in the code will meet this morning to kick off a three-day summit designed to establish once and for all the way forward for rugby below the Super 14 level.

Sydney's premiership clubs have been in an uproar as the meeting approaches, with many believing the ARU has already planned a future competition that will exclude them and will sound their death knell as money and crowds are lured away.

Rumours abound of plans for a six-team competition centred on the four provinces, or a 10-team version with five Sydney entities, and last week Randwick and Sydney University placed advertisements querying any system which would not allow them to be involved in their current stand-alone format.

Asked if he could guarantee no agendas were in place prior to the meeting, Neill said: "There's an agenda to get what the right result is. Everybody has an opinion as to what is the right answer. I've had a myriad of solutions land on my desk that all have merits and downsides.

"I myself have my opinion of how it should end up, and I'd be amazed if people at the ARU didn't have some ideas about how it should end up, but I'm very confident that it is going to be an open process and we're going to end up with the best result because for the first time there's a fully inclusive process."

Neill said Randwick and the Students had had a knee-jerk reaction to the summit.

"I'll take it in the upside that people are passionate and thinking about it ... [but] I hope those paranoias are parked pretty quickly in the first day ..." he said.

[Burgs]

Our rich club heritage under threat

By David Sygall
Sunday, May 28, 2006

More than a century of heritage and tradition may be tossed away if a national rugby competition is introduced, former Wallabies have warned.

Nick Farr-Jones and Warwick Waugh spoke out before a three-day meeting that starts tomorrow between representatives from the Australian Rugby Union, state unions, clubs and consultants, who will consider introducing a new tier to bridge the gap between club rugby and the Super 14.

Farr-Jones and Waugh fear this competition would spell the end of Sydney club rugby in its current form and might lead to the axing of their former clubs, Sydney University and Randwick.

The two clubs took out an expensive advertisement on the back page of The Sydney Morning Herald to make their fears public.

The advertisement outlined the clubs' recent records in producing state and international players, their financial security and development plans. Both clubs have a rich rugby heritage and are financially sound, but Waugh believes that may not be enough for them to survive.

"The concerns for Randwick and Uni are that the criterium could be set in a way that our clubs could well be penalised to the point of ending up not part of next year's competition," he said.

"The point of the ad is to get on the front foot to make sure people know what's going on before next week because it's a bit cloak and dagger.

"We don't know the agenda of the ARU. They're looking at a national competition and that can't sustain all the clubs in Sydney.

"If they start talking about financial criterium and grounds, depending on how it's set up, we could be penalised. Our history and heritage possibly wouldn't be enough to get us over the line. We'll know a lot more next Wednesday after the meeting."

Randwick is one of the world's most well-known clubs, while Sydney Uni, founded in 1863, is Australia's oldest.

"I've played in Italy, France, Ireland, England and everywhere I went Randwick were more popular than the Waratahs," Waugh said. "Everyone knows who we are. Randwick is one of the world's great clubs. Campese played here.

"To take that away because we don't fit criteria would be a tragedy, even in the evolution of the game."

The clubs don't know if they would be able to appeal if they were axed but legal action could be expected if there was a decision to cut clubs out.

"They've very cleverly kept it under guard," Waugh said. "Something that threatens the future of our clubs, whether we've got a right of appeal or not, they'll certainly hear from us.

The greats of Randwick probably don't even realise what's going on.

"When the ARU consider this, they should consider they're in a good position because of the Sydney clubs. If they start axing clubs with such history and breeding for Wallabies, Australian rugby's going to be in a lot more trouble than they realise."

Farr-Jones, who played his club rugby at Sydney Uni, was confident his former club would withstand any changes, but voiced his concern over the possible axing of other clubs.

"Ten years ago, Sydney Uni probably wouldn't have met all the criteria," Farr-Jones said. "But they probably won't miss out now because there were people there 10 years ago with the wisdom to build a strong infrastructure. The fact is, however, it will be a very discriminatory process. Some clubs will miss out, which is a great disappointment, given the clubs' history and the competition."

Sydney Uni general manager Ray Dearlove said: "We understand the need for a third tier, but we're not sure there's anything wrong with the club system in NSW now. Between us and Randwick, we've produced 25 per cent of the current Wallabies."

[Burgs]

As they say, opinions are like ar*eholes, everybody has one!
Anyway, here's mine open for criticism by all!
Clubs listed are feeders Clubs for each "APC" team.
Where appropriate the Suburb locations are in brackets.
The names aren't that important, just the best I could come up with to describe areas without using existing Club names.
Would give twelve teams for a single round or two divisions for a full Home & Away with relegation/promotion each year.

Burgs' Australian Provincial Championships:

Eastwood-
Eastwood (Marsfield)
Gordon (Chatswood)

Great Western-
WA Clubs (Including available Force S14 players)
NT Clubs

Manly-Warringah-
Manly (Manly)
Warringah (Narrabeen)

North Brisbane-
Brothers (Albion)
GPS (Ashgrove)
Norths QUT (Kallinga)
University (St. Lucia)
Wests (Toowong)
Qld Country Clubs

Port Jackson-
Eastern Suburbs (Bellevue Hill)
Northern Suburbs (North Sydney)
West Harbour (Concord)

Randwick-
Randwick (Coogee)

South Brisbane-
Easts (Coorparoo)
Gold Coast (Broadbeach Waters)
Souths (Annerley)
Sunnybank (Sunnybank)
Sunshine Coast (Caloundra)

Southern Districts-
Southern Districts (Sylvania Waters)
Illawarra (Wollongong)
NSW Southern Country Clubs

Southern Ocean-
Vic Clubs
NSW Western Country Clubs
SA Clubs
Tas Clubs

University-
University (Sydney University)

Vikings-
Brumbies A
ACT Clubs

Western United-
Parramatta (Granville)
Penrith (Penrith)
Newcastle Clubs
Gosford Clubs
NSW Central and Northern Country Clubs

[The InnFORCEr]

Burgs your wasting your time in the bush, you should a rugby suit in a big city office with air conditioning and everything!!!

[Happy]

farm looking after itself these days eh burgs? lol

[Burgs]

Three weeks and counting folks, then it's mustering time and you'll have to cope by yourselves for a couple of months
Any thoughts on the concepts though fellas?
Reckon it would give the AFL a bit of a shake up after a few years having a truelly National Union "Club" Comp?

[The InnFORCEr]

Certainly from a loction and grouping point of view it seems to work well. Weather or not it would give a reasonable distribution of talent I'm not sure. And yes it would be great to continue the "rugby boom" and dissolve AFLs national domination.

[Happy]

"whether"

I don't think AFL has much to worry about, australia is big enough for both codes to live happily with each other. I think NRL is going to find it hard in the future years.

As for provincial comp, might be tough, it will be a few years minimum before you see kids start picking up a rugby ball instead of a cricket or footy ball in the majority of country areas, especially in WA.

But we still have coffers full of coin post World Cup 03 so plenty of time to do things properly! Walla-rugby programs etc!

[The InnFORCEr]

"whether"

Sorry, I meant if it rains some days and is sunny on others some teams will have more of an advantage than others

Weather was right

[Happy]

hahahaha .. ahh funny man!!!

[The InnFORCEr]

hahahaha .. ahh funny man!!!

back to work geek

[Burgs]

..... it will be a few years minimum before you see kids start picking up a rugby ball instead of a cricket or footy ball in the majority of country areas, especially in WA.

Haha, not around this camp, I'll send them East to boarding school if any potential kids of mine start kicking a footy, male or female!
Just kidding, yeah AFL is still very much the "National" sport however I think significant inroads can be made if we are able to get free to air meaningful rugby on the telly for a decent length season and people start seeing more players they know from their home towns/suburbs.
RugbyWA are certainly doing their bit with six Development Officers, two of which (I think) are for country areas, operating in WA.
One thing is for sure, Rugby will never go back to pre WC '03 status in WA again!

[Happy]

One thing is for sure, Rugby will never go back to pre WC '03 status in WA again!

thank the stars for that!!!!!!

[no.8]

I have been reading all the stuff I can on this subject and I think if the ARU don't manage it properly it will become a lemon. So I think a few fundamental building blocks must be put in place first. Although, the ARU MUST finacially float this competition first to establish their authority from day one.

1. A rigid salary cap must be set. A simple system with no grey area, black and white only.

2. The teams must be privately owned with a licence to operate it. This would mean that no Rugby club could influence the team one way or another. However, if you pay the money you can influence it as much as you like within the terms of the licence.

3. NSW and QLD would need to take their teams away from the central areas. Either on the Southern, Northern or Western extremes, perhaps the country.
The fans in the City area are full up with Rugby. 4 months of Wallabies, 4 months of Super 14's and then they have to squeeze their Club Rugby loyalties in as well. (Perhaps one teams in the city that they can all get behind).
Set them up in Gosford, Newcastle, Gold Coast, Townsville or Mount Isa. SPREAD THE WORD to the outlands they will respond to having this team - there is very little else going on in some of these places. This will attract untapped sponsors in the mining and tourism areas.

4. Adelaide must be added to the competition within 2 years. There will be very little ball to begin with, but the long term gain in territory will be bear valuable points in the future.

5. A second team in the West within 2 years (if not sooner). This team will allow players and fans from Darwin/Alice/Country WA to be involved. Ideally this will play in the main centres in the West Bunbury/Kalgoorlie and NT(Darwin/Alice Springs). Again this will attract untapped sponsors in the mining and tourism areas.

6. A further team each will need to be added in Queensland and New South Wales, where there is a void in 4 to 5 years. As the demand for the game grows again there will be more supporters in the outlands of the Rugby strong states needing their NRC fix.

7. Inclusion of Australia 'A' in the PAC 5 (make that 6) competiton a priority.

Presently there are 8 teams by 2009 there should be 10 and by 2012 12. Overtime the proffesional pool can be increase from 240 to 360 proffesional players.
Ideally the competition should be a 4 month competition running parrallel to the Wallabies. It's main function will be to provide a top class specticle and a player pool for the 'A' team and the national side in the event of poor performances and injuries.
The competition built up correctly will provide:
1. Maximum exposure to potential new sponsors and supporters alike.
2. A viable pool for Super 14 competition, Australia 'A' and Wallabies depth.
3. Encourage the growth of Rugby with empahsis on several professional tiers.

My two bob