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Thread: A new points-scoring system is worth looking at, says Rod Macqueen

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    A new points-scoring system is worth looking at, says Rod Macqueen

    BY: BRET HARRIS From: The Australian December 06, 2011 12:00AM


    FORMER Wallabies coach Rod Macqueen has thrown his support behind the trial of a new points-scoring system designed to promote attacking rugby.



    The IRB has approved a trial in the South African Varsity Cup next year.



    Under the experimental system, the value of a try would remain at five points, but conversions would increase from two to three points, while penalty goals and field goals decrease from three to two points.



    The intention is to put more emphasis on try scoring without detracting from goal-kicking skills.

    "It's worth looking at anything at the moment," said Macqueen, who was involved in the design of the experimental law variations which were trialled a few years ago and led to the introduction of several new laws which have improved the game.

    "We have to keep an open mind. We need to look at it, but it's important changes are not made without understanding the consequences. There's often three or four ramifications because of one law change.


    "It's difficult to know what would happen. On one hand it may encourage the attacking team to continue to attack. On the other hand it might encourage teams to infringe more. There are different ways it could go.

    "We should always be trying to make the game better."

    Under the experimental scoring system, a converted try would be worth eight points instead of seven and a team would have to kick four penalty goals or field goals to equal it.

    Conversely, under the current scoring system, it only takes three penalty goals or field goals to surpass a converted try.



    The system would certainly have the potential to alter results.

    If the system was applied at the recent World Cup in New Zealand, the champion All Blacks would have lost 8-7 to France in the final instead of the other way around.



    Supporters of the experimental system, including South African referees manager Andre Watson, expect more tries to be scored, but also imagine it could lead to more penalties being conceded on purpose.



    But just because a team is awarded a penalty within kicking distance does not mean it has to attempt a shot at goal.



    In the Wallabies' 24-18 win against Wales in Cardiff last Sunday Australian captain James Horwill turned down an attempt at penalty goal to pursue a try and was vindicated when halfback Will Genia scored. Whether Horwill would have made the same decision if Wales had not been reduced to 14 men because of a yellow card is hard to know.



    But it is common practice in the NRL for teams to turn down shots at penalty goal to go for tries.

    Under rugby league's scoring system, tries are worth four points, while conversions and penalty goals are two points each and field goals just one.



    This means rugby league teams have to kick three penalty goals to equal a converted try and four to surpass it, which makes the scoring system in the 13-a-side code closer to the one being trialled in the South African Universities competition.

    If the trial is successful, the South African Rugby Union could make a recommendation to have the experimental scoring system adopted at provincial and even Test level in 2013.


    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226214563164

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    Champion zed's Avatar
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    Which is great in theory, but what happens then when a penalty is only 2 points, defending teams that are under the pump, will quite happily give away penalties to prevent tries being scored. It happens enough as it is with penalties being worth 3 points, dropping it to 2 will just see even more penalties being given.

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    Legend Contributor brokendown gunfighter's Avatar
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    I agree,however I think you will find a "zero tolerance" policy by refs near the goal line,with yellow cards being dished out left,right & centre

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    Last edited by brokendown gunfighter; 06-12-11 at 13:46.

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    Absolutely. The strength of the All Blacks is that cracking them is so hard that they can push the law past the limit in order to stop it and all they suffer is 3 points. The Crusaders do a similar thing. They are especially good at picking the position to infringe on the field that are harder to kick from (outwide). If you devalue penalties it would only work in their favour. If anything would promote more attacking rugby it would be as BDGF says and yellow carding more frequently especially when infringements come off the back of some quality phases of attack.

    There is nothing wrong with the current scoring system.

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    Try: 5
    Conversion: 2
    Penalty: 2
    Drop Goal: 1

    If a penalty is only 2 points then the attacking team is more likely to push on for 5/7 than go back to halfway. That said, I would at 3 but the general school of thought is take the points so who knows.
    Drop goal should not be enough to win a match from behind, only enough to break a draw IMHO.

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    Try: 5
    Conversion: 2
    Penalty: 3
    Drop Goal: 3

    Works fine for me!

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    “Everyone knows whether it’s rugby, politics or whatever, front-rowers should rule the world, so to have a hooker at the helm makes sense,” Nathan Charles Western Force & Wallabies Hooker.

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    It's like the ELVs from a few years ago - worth a trial but probably won't do what they intend to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    Drop goal should not be enough to win a match from behind, only enough to break a draw IMHO.
    Bingo

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    Penalty: 3
    Drop goal: 3 (with kick treated the same as any other kick in general play)
    Try: 5
    Conversion: 2
    Drop goal conversion: 3
    Some lesser infringements: Penalty, but no option to kick for points

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    I like that point about drop goals Andy- it should be a choice of a drop out or a scrum to the defending team from the place of kicking if the missed droppie goes dead. There is nothing wrong with drop goals so long as guys like Francois Steyn don't get bored and start trying to kick them over from everywhere outside their own 22s.

    Given how much a lottery the scrum is- and you don't need to go past Kaplan on Saturday for evidence of that- they need give more FKs at scrums. Unfortunately making it so you can't kick at goal from a scrum penalty just isn't workable.

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    Champion welshrugbyfan's Avatar
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    The score system is fine.

    Bring back rucking, that'll get rid of all the not releasing and rolling away penalties.


    Simple, problem solved.

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    Interesting...so the same day McCaw admits the French went the gouge knowing they were risking months on the sideline, you're saying they should have been given permission to use their sprigs. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Interesting...so the same day McCaw admits the French went the gouge knowing they were risking months on the sideline, you're saying they should have been given permission to use their sprigs. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
    Yes but using your sprigs was legal at one point in this game and during this same time frame of the game there were a lot less penalties issued in a game.

    Coincidence? I think not.

    Rucking promotes releasing of the ball and getting the hell out of the way in a ruck when your not involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by welshrugbyfan View Post

    Rucking promotes releasing of the ball and getting the hell out of the way in a ruck when your not involved.
    Like bacon and eggs??

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    Last edited by travelling_gerry; 06-12-11 at 21:30.

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    And the game was amateur, and players weren't fit enough to get to the breakdown as often or fast as today, and there wasn't a bench before the seventies to allow the speed to be maintained (or even replace injured players), and it was just a game with no-one's livelihood on the line, and there were no cards to allow the ref to sort things out, and so many other things that impact on how many players are at the breakdown trying to slow the ball. Correlation does not imply causation.

    What I do know is many, many ex-players who are proud to this day of how they used to collect track marks for their team. If they were happy to do it when there was nothing but a bit of pride on the line, do you really think professionals wouldn't just wear it when their livelihood, fame and international trophies were on the line. They are either incredibly soft, or rucking would make no difference at all other than to create some pretty ugly images for the millions now watching. Can you imagine the coverage of Buck losing a nut in a RWC final...?

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