New-look Force to be reckoned with

[TOCC]

I think Cummins will provide a real spark in the backline provided he gets over his injury, and i reckon Sare will be starting ahead of DHP

[brokendown gunfighter]

on the wing?

[TOCC]

Sare has played on the wing before, im almost certain he played on the wing last year for the Force

[James]

DHP won't strike fear into opposition defences
Cummins was a dangerous 7's player. He's yet to prove himself at super 14 level
Shep is good one day, ordinary the next
Cross dies with the ball too much for mine and goes missing in the big games
We'll be competitive but we don't have the backs to destroy an organised defence.
JOC is a bit of an x-factor but he's lost the surprise factor this year. Opponents will have done a lot of homework on him

Cummins was sensational in last years Super 14 until his injury. He was chalked in by Deans as a Wallabies starter against England according to reports. Shep is awesome when uninjured and unfortunately he's been that way for the last fair while. Crossy hasn't been brilliant in the last 12 months but was in sensational form in 2008 and there is no reason why he couldn't go back to it. JO'C will still be great. We don't have the backs to destroy an organised defense but you don't need to destroy one to win and our forwards are good enough now to help disorganise an organised defense.

Purely on the basis of experience I agree with you TOCC that Sare will start over DHP but I will wager all of my vCash (and last time I checked I had the most) that he'll surprise a lot of people on this site through the season.

[brokendown gunfighter]

yes sare is a winger(well centre really)DHP is a fullback

Sare would probably start as a winger ahead of DHP

[travelling_gerry]

I will wager all of my vCash (and last time I checked I had the most)

Shouldn't have said that.........

[James]

Shouldn't have said that.........

I have to love it while I've got it.

[BeeJay]

Don't forget we have Bartholomeusz who can back up at fullback, wing and pivot, and Inman and Tatupu who can come in for impact later in games. Bartholomeusz to start over Sare for mine.
As has been mentioned, but for injury Cummins may well be a Wallaby...

[normie]

im not saying his rubbish, im just saying that its to far fetched to claim that his better then Drew considering Drew has proven himself at the S14 level, regardless i will keep a eye out for him in 2010

It may seem far fetched TOCC, you say DHP hasn't proven himself at S14.
I say he hasn't proven himself at S14 yet. There is good reason for the Force faithful to have so much faith. There comes a time when the potential turns real. For DHP it looks like 2010.

[TOCC]

It may seem far fetched TOCC, you say DHP hasn't proven himself at S14.
I say he hasn't proven himself at S14 yet. There is good reason for the Force faithful to have so much faith. There comes a time when the potential turns real. For DHP it looks like 2010.

thats exactly what im saying, comparing a player who has yet to prove himself to another player who has earned over 40test caps is a bit of a joke though.

At the end of the 2010 season, if DHP has a awsome season and earns a few test caps, then sure make the comparison then.

[GIGS20]

thats exactly what im saying, comparing a player who has yet to prove himself to another player who has earned over 40test caps is a bit of a joke though.

At the end of the 2010 season, if DHP has a awsome season and earns a few test caps, then sure make the comparison then.

I'd say you're right for the wing TOCC, but everybody with eyes agrees that Mitchell is a shitty fullback, I'd rank Matt Dunning above Drew Mitchell at fullback

(Think about it, the tackling would be great, he'd lose a little in counterattack, but Ohhhhh that boot!)

[palitu]

Cummins was a dangerous 7's player. He's yet to prove himself at super 14 level

I think cummins did bloody well last year and really hit it up on the wing. I dont recall too many mistakes made either.

AND that cullet!

[James]

Don't forget we have Bartholomeusz who can back up at fullback, wing and pivot, and Inman and Tatupu who can come in for impact later in games. Bartholomeusz to start over Sare for mine.
As has been mentioned, but for injury Cummins may well be a Wallaby...

Bartholomeusz has been training to play fullback and flyhalf as a secondary consideration. At his age/experience he is probably a bit better served at fullback than wing. Given the current injury situation Shepherd and Sare will probably be on the wings and Bart will be at the back.

[farva]

We do not have one of the best forward packs in the S14. Both the Tahs and Brumbies are ahead of the Force forward pack. We have a phenominal back row, but so do the Brumbies. Our second row is good but not amazing, probably equal to anything in Australia, but certainly not better. And our front row is much better than previous years, but is still not up there with the best. The Tah and Brumby front rows are very strong (the Brumbies bought all their talent so it will still remain to be seen how they gel).

Outside of Australia, the Crusaders pack is looking immense, brimming with All Blacks. The front row for the Blues is also looking very strong. The Sharks and Bulls as usual have very competitive packs. I would rate each of these teams ahead of or equal to the Force pack. Therefore, our pack is probably around #5 or #6 in the comp.

Having said all that, if Cowen, Hockings and Wykes really step up, then that could all be wrong.

The backs are certainly weaker than they were. I would have the Force backs up there with the Bulls and Chiefs last year. Cummins is a phenominal player - his attack is exceptional, and his defence has really come along in leaps and bounds. Shepherd will be the Aus fullback if he can remain fit. The Cross/JOC centre combo is very good, and certainly up there with anything that the S14 can throw at them. Sheehan/Pretorius is a lot weaker than Valentine/Giteau - I think that Valentine would have had some more Wallaby time had he not had that food fight. It is a very competant back unit, but the depth there is what is making it weak. If any of these first starters get injured, the replacement is a big step down to a rookie or journeyman. The forwards at least have depth.

Hope I dont sound too negative, but I really see this year as a development year. There are a lot of new faces, and the Force management have done some intelligent long term planning with their recruitments. But it will take time for many of the players to get up to S14 standard.

[GIGS20]

Hard to argue with much of that Farva, I don't agree with your assessment of the Brumbies front row however. They've got Stephen Moore......that's it really, their back row consists of Rocky Elsom everybody else in the Brumbies pack is second to a Force player......yes, even George Smith!

As for Valentine/Giteau, I don't think you're necessarily wron with your assessment of the individuals, but I don't think the combination's good. Valo and Gits rarely gelled last year and I can't see much changing this year. I'm sure it's all attitude, Gits is an awesome ball runner, but far too often it seems that when Gits finally decides to get in a decent position to attack from Valo misses him with the pass. I think Sheehan and Pretorius, being a little more.....shall we say steady, will make for a more consisten performance.


I guess it's a lot like Sharpie, before he was dropped from the Wallabies, he was trying to do it all, slip magic passes, run stepping lines etc and he was turning the ball over heaps. as soon as he got a little 'one dimensional' and focussed on hitting the ball up and bending the defensive line, the other forwards knew what was on and protected the ball better. we don't necessarily NEED flash in the 9-10 channel, we certainly don't need it more than consistency. we can get the magic from 12 and 15 (or 11 if Shep plays there) Bam would also be a good candidate to run a bit more creatively.