Giteau vs Pretorius

[tdevil]

Just some stats from the 2009 Super 14 season I gathered to compare
our past no.10 to our future no.10
AP
Minutes play 870
Clean breaks 4
Conv 22
Missed conv 9
Drop goals 6
Ineffective passes 18
Kicks in play 118
Def beaten 6
Missed tackles 29
Offloads 13
Passes 165
Penalties conceded 3
Runs 77
Tackles made 103
T/O's conceded 12

MG
Minutes play 1023
Clean breaks 14
Conv 28
Missed conv 13
Drop goals 1
Ineffective passes 24
Kicks in play 148
Def beaten 17
Missed tackles 20
Offloads 15
Passes 335
Penalties conceded 4
Runs 109
Tackles made 128
T/O's conceded 21

[palitu]

look at the turn over count... though MG has a lot of breaks to his name...

[Burgs]

Didn't find any ego rating tdevil?

[Timbo]

The bandwidth isn't big enough

[mudskipper]

AP - more drop goals than line breaks...
MG - 335 passes and 109 runs and 21 T/Os...

AP - Didn't tackle much for in a side which didn't often have the ball. The Lions topped the table for points against at 419 points in 2009

[Burgs]

I think it is pretty tough to compare the raw figures, you would need to see them as percentages as there are so many variables.
Another would be effectiveness as well, I seem to recall being very frustrated at how many times when he did take it to the line Gits was actually quite ineffective.
As far as the Force is concerned, if AP can pass it when the opportunity is there then he will be considerably in front of his predecessor as he is obviously the superior kicker.
Is AP a better player? I doubt it.
Is he a better Flyhalf? Considerably.

[mudskipper]

more ball he'll do better...

[James]

If Giteau was a great fly-half then Andy Friend would play him at 10 and all indication is that he's going directly to 12. The Brumbies have a lot of depth especially at 12- Mudskipper propaganda initiative 117456SX-A. So it's not just us who don't rate him there.

The statistics are pretty meaningless because it doesn't really account for the rest of the team. The Force are a far better team than the Lions and the quality of ball that Pretorius receives offers him less opportunities as well as the quality of ball the opposition are getting makes it harder to defend. A truer measure will be whether or not he can ignite the Force's backline- something Giteau could not.

[brokendown gunfighter]

at least there will be no crabbing sideways

and the amount of white anting will diminish

[jazza93]

Giteau vs Pretorious

Giteau has a lot more flair and is a better playmaker. We are lucky to have Pretorious but we have really lost out this time. The backline is getting worse while the forwards are getting better.

[GIGS20]

Giteau vs Pretorious

Giteau has a lot more flair and is a better playmaker. We are lucky to have Pretorious but we have really lost out this time. The backline is getting worse while the forwards are getting better.

Umm, i'm not sure i agree with your assessment of Gits Jazza, from where I sat for the last two years he's not really provided the assists to his team that I'd expect of a world class playmaker.

Giteau is by several light years a better stepper and a bigger threat at the line, which means he SHOULD be the better playmaker, but there just seems to be something missing, perhaps it's vision, perhaps it's attitude, perhaps it's skills, I don't know but for my money Gits didn't involve his teammates well and he kicked poorly out of hand. I haven't seen Andre much (not really being interested enough to focus on the Lions a whole bunch) but the impressions I gain are that we've lost out on the line threat, picked up on the tactical kicking, so for mine the balance of the equation is in the quality of the passing game. Since it's quite obvious that pretty much any fluhalf who's pulled on a jersey has played better than Gits in that area I think we might have picked up a little overall..........unless Andre breaks down.

I'm sure we have ample cover but really....Sam Harris is getting on and never really amounted to a S14 starter, so is liely to be the bench cover and injury guy. Is Bart still an option at 10....I would wonder but am open to be corrected on that one, and Stefano is too green ATM...have I missed anyone?.... I guess depth is a bigger issue than the quality of our starte.

[zimeric]

dont be too surprised to see Stefano pulling on a jumper mid season.. Pretorius is 1st option but im willing to bet Mitchell will be wanting to blood the next generation in preparation for 2011.. remember Pretorius is only here for 1 year (at this point)

[BDAVEY]

gee saw brook james play on tele over the weekend hes improved maybe he is an option for 2011.......

[Thequeerone]

Very curious to see both gentlemen's stats at the end of the year

[James]

Umm, i'm not sure i agree with your assessment of Gits Jazza, from where I sat for the last two years he's not really provided the assists to his team that I'd expect of a world class playmaker.

Giteau is by several light years a better stepper and a bigger threat at the line, which means he SHOULD be the better playmaker, but there just seems to be something missing, perhaps it's vision, perhaps it's attitude, perhaps it's skills, I don't know but for my money Gits didn't involve his teammates well and he kicked poorly out of hand. I haven't seen Andre much (not really being interested enough to focus on the Lions a whole bunch) but the impressions I gain are that we've lost out on the line threat, picked up on the tactical kicking, so for mine the balance of the equation is in the quality of the passing game. Since it's quite obvious that pretty much any fluhalf who's pulled on a jersey has played better than Gits in that area I think we might have picked up a little overall..........unless Andre breaks down.

I'm sure we have ample cover but really....Sam Harris is getting on and never really amounted to a S14 starter, so is liely to be the bench cover and injury guy. Is Bart still an option at 10....I would wonder but am open to be corrected on that one, and Stefano is too green ATM...have I missed anyone?.... I guess depth is a bigger issue than the quality of our starte.

This isn't a criticism of Giteau but sometimes when he'd run the ball and make breaks he'd lose his support and the ball would get turned over. Seemed like he was reading from a different play sheet to the rest of the team. Now he is super talented and all that but what is the point in making a break if the opposition end up with the ball when it gets closed down. Now you can blame the other team members but it happens with both the Force and the Wallabies. With Giteau and Drew Mitchell the team plays towards the speed of those players but with a pretty solid pack and effective back row we don't need the zippy steppers as much as you can just feed the ball to the numerous 100kg+ backs we have to mount pressure until the opposition cracks. If he remains uninjured, Pretorius is a better 10 for the players we now have.

Sam Harris probably shouldn't be looked at as a 10- he wasn't inspiring for Warringah in the Shute Shield but he was a regular fixture in the Waratahs at 12 when he used to be there. He's not brilliant but he's a fairly decent mix of the playmaker 12 and the crash ball 12. Apparently Mitch told Bart to focus on 15 with the possibility of 10 too. So you kinda get the feeling it would go Pretorius/Bartholomeusz/Harris/O'Connor/Hunt in pecking order. You never know though- look what moving to France did to Jonny Wilkinson- same might happen with the 'Dre.