Scrum Discussion

[AndyS]

Law Discussion (http://www.rugby365.com/laws_referee...ss/2073644.htm)

There was a lot of upset after the Italians shattered the All Black scrum in Milan and public suggestions from on high that the referee had got it wrong and needed to go on a scrumming course.

Scrumming courses are not new for referees. It is laughable to listen to Garth Wright on television saying that referees should have a scrumming course from an expert like Balie Swart.

At the beginning of the year, starting in Hartebeesthoek, Balie Swart went round the country giving courses to referees on handling the scrum - excellent courses from a springbok prop who is an expert scrumming coach who knows what the players want and want to achieve in a potentially dangerous zone.

In fact it would be interesting to know if anybody could point to a national referees' course in the last 40 years where scrumming was not a component.

Apart from that referees consult experts on their own. They will get help from top teams. This idea that referees do not know what is going on and should attend courses is codswallop. Can you image the top dozen or so referees in the world, chosen out of thousands for their ability, who take no interest in learning the intricacies of scrumming.

After all the hooha there was a change this weekend.

When the top referees the managers of top referees met for their November conference in Lensbury recently, they discussed scrumming and their concern about all the rests in scrums. They decided that the onus really rested with the players. Referees do not make a mess of scrums; players do. The onus has always been on the players. Referees can do their best to manage the situation and then react when something wrong is done.

The conference had ideas about management - preventative refereeing. It also identified 17 things to look for at every scrum. 17 things, 16 aggressive people plus scrumhalves - no wonder its a difficult task. No wonder referees are not always as accurate as people on the sidelines would like them to be.

They discussed everything from pre-engagement and engagement to illegal activities that were not always obvious - such as a tighthead who fades, a loosehead who goes "around the corner", locks who use a crotch bind on the props and not on each other, and a form of wheel involving locks and loose forwards to pull the tighthead and each other and effect a fast and dangerous wheel of the scrum.

Referees were to pay attention to setting the scrum - marking the place clearly and getting the gap right so that one side does not make it difficult for opponents by being too close. Too big a gap also creates problems.

Then the timing and manner of the referee's instructions are important.

On crouch call – both teams to crouch and to be parallel with ground.
On touch call – both teams to touch and withdraw – all four props.
On pause call – front rows to wait for engage call. There must be a definite pause.
On engage call – front rows to hit.

If the loosehead hits in high enough, the tighthead has not excuse not to hit in and bind. There is a problem if the loosehead engages with head or head and shoulders lower than hips . Then the tighthead is not the one at fault.

The loosehead much not shift out to angle in.

The tighthead must not bind on the loosehead's elbow and must not angle in and must not pull down.

If there are problems here the referee would have to react.

If a team fails to crouch when called – free kick
If the prop fails to touch on call – free kick
If teams engage early (no pause) – free kick
If binding is not correct – penalty kick

Final outcomes agreed upon:

Early hit - (free kick twice and thereafter penalty kick
Late engagement - free kick twice and thereafter penalty kick
Not touching - free kick twice and thereafter penalty kick

In general what happens before engagement is a free kick; what happens after engagement is a penalty kick - except, of course, the crooked feed which is a free kick.

Referees are expected to blow for what is clear and obvious and to act sooner rather than later.

Binding is one of the obviously important things - where the props bind and in fact of they bind. A hand on the ground is not allowed.

Collapsing the scrum and standing up in the scrum are to be treated in the same way. If there is an infringement, it should be penalised. If there is no infringement, the scrum should be reset but if the ball is ready to be cleared, play should go on without a reset.

We give some of the relevant provisos of Law 20. It's worth reading if only to see how regulated (over-regulated) the scrum is and how kind referees are. In fact their kindness may be part of the problem! Later we shall do some statistics on recent scrumming, including one awful match in England.

Law 20.1 (g) Front rows coming together. First, the referee marks with a foot the place where the scrum is to be formed. Before the two front rows come together they must be standing not more than an arm’s length apart. The ball is in the scrum half’s hands, ready to be thrown in. The front rows must crouch so that when they meet, each player’s head and shoulders are no lower than the hips. The front rows must interlock so that no player’s head is next to the head of a team-mate.
Penalty: Free Kick

(h) The referee will call “crouch” then “touch”. The front rows crouch and using their outside arm each prop touches the point of the opposing prop’s outside shoulder. The props then withdraw their arms. The referee will then call “pause”. Following a pause the referee will then call “engage”. The front rows may then engage. The “engage” call is not a command but an indication that the front rows may come together when ready.
Penalty: Free Kick

(i) A crouched position is the extension of the normal stance by bending the knees sufficiently to move into the engagement without a charge.

(j) Charging. A front row must not form at a distance from its opponents and rush against them. This is dangerous play.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

(Mk) Stationary and parallel. Until the ball leaves the scrum half’s hands, the scrum must be stationary and the middle line must be parallel to the goal lines. A team must not shove the
scrum away from the mark before the ball is thrown in.
Penalty: Free Kick

20.2 FRONT-ROW PLAYERS’ POSITIONS

(a) All players in a position to shove. When a scrum has formed, the body and feet of each front row player must be in a normal position to make a forward shove.
Penalty: Free Kick

(b) This means that the front row players must have both feet on the ground, with their weight firmly on at least one foot. Players must not cross their feet, although the foot of one player may cross a team-mate’s foot. Each player’s shoulders must be no lower than the hips.
Penalty: Free Kick

(c) Hooker in a position to hook. Until the ball is thrown in, the hooker must be in a position to hook the ball. The hookers must have both feet on the ground, with their weight firmly on at least one foot. A hooker’s foremost foot must not be in front of the foremost foot of that team’s props.
Penalty: Free Kick

20.3 BINDING IN THE SCRUM
DEFINITION
When a player binds on a team-mate that player must use the whole arm from hand to shoulder to grasp the team-mate’s body at or below the level of the armpit. Placing only a hand on another player is not satisfactory binding.

(a) Binding by all front row players. All front row players must bind firmly and continuously from the start to the finish of the scrum.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

(b) Binding by hookers. The hooker may bind either over or under the arms of the props. The props must not support the hooker so that the hooker has no weight on either foot.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

(c) Binding by loosehead props. A loosehead prop must bind on the opposing tight head prop by placing the left arm inside the right arm of the tight head and gripping the tighthead prop’s jersey on the back or side. The loosehead prop must not grip the chest, arm, sleeve or collar of the opposition tighthead prop. The loosehead prop must not exert any
downward pressure.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

(d) Binding by tighthead props. A tighthead prop must bind on the opposing loose head prop by placing the right arm outside the left upper arm of the opposing loosehead prop. The tighthead prop must grip the loosehead prop’s jersey with the right hand only on the back or side. The tighthead prop must not grip the chest, arm, sleeve or collar of the opposition loose head prop. The tighthead prop must not exert any downward pressure.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

(e) Both the loosehead and tighthead props may alter their bind providing they do so in accordance with this Law.

(f) Binding by all other players. All players in a scrum, other than front-row players, must bind on a lock’s body with at least one arm prior to the scrum engagement. The locks must bind with the props in front of them. No other player other than a prop may hold an opponent.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

(h) Scrum collapse. If a scrum collapses, the referee must blow the whistle immediately so that players stop pushing.

(i) Player forced upwards. If a player in a scrum is lifted in the air, or is forced upwards out of the scrum, the referee must blow the whistle immediately so that players stop pushing.

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Scrum figures (http://www.rugby365.com/laws_referee...ss/2076242.htm)

Before the November Tests started the top refereeing people gathered in London and had a lot to say about the scrums. After the first full week of November, there was much miserable controversy about scrums after New Zealand suffered in Milan. That produced greater refereeing awareness in the second week.

The concern in London was the number of resets with the consequence in time devoured.

Week 1, 13-15 November
France vs South Africa: scrums 17, resets 0, collapses 4, free kicks 2, penalties 1
Wales vs Samoa: scrums 19, resets 8, collapses 12, free kicks 3, penalties 3
England vs Argentina: scrums 18, resets 8, collapses 8, free kicks 3, penalties 1
Italy vs New Zealand: scrums 25, resets 19, collapses 20, free kicks 1, penalties 7
Scotland vs Fiji: scrums 19, resets 8, collapses 4, free kicks 3, penalties 2
Ireland vs Australia: scrums 14, resets 7, collapses 5, free kicks 2, penalties 2

Totals:

Scrums: 112
Resets: 50 - 45%
Collapses: 53 - 47%
Free Kicks: 14 - 12,5%
Penalties: 16 - 14%

Week 2, 21 November
Italy vs South Africa: scrums 13, resets 5, collapses 3, free kicks 1, penalties 3
Scotland vs Australia: scrums 20, resets 2, collapses 8, free kicks 7, penalties 1
England vs New Zealand: scrums 25, resets 3, collapses 8, free kicks 3, penalties 2
France vs Samoa: scrums 20, resets 3, collapses 7, free kicks 2, penalties 2
Ireland vs Fiji: scrums 27, resets 7, collapses 2, free kicks 2, penalties 1
Wales vs Argentina: scrums 17, resets 4, collapses 8, free kicks 4, penalties 3

Totals:

Scrums: 122
Resets: 21 - 17%
Collapses: 36 - 30%
Free Kicks: 19 - 16%
Penalties: 12 - 10%

Whether an accident or not, the second week is much better than the first in terms of resets and collapses. There are more free kicks - not that they matter as play is often quick after them. On the other hand penalties are also down.

Mind you, that Italy-New Zealand match may have produced an aberration. If you take off the numbers for that match you get 36% resets (still more than double Week 2) and 38% collapses (more than in Week 2).

Here are the two matches involving New Zealand:

Italy vs New Zealand: scrums 25, resets 19, collapses 20, free kicks 1, penalties 7
England vs New Zealand: scrums 25, resets 3, collapses 8, free kicks 3, penalties 2

Big difference.

Perhaps the mess of Milan did produce a shake-up for players and match officials. Perhaps.

Then you watch Worcester Warriors playing Bath over the same weekend.

There the scrum stats:

Scrums: 19
Resets: 17 - 89%
Collapses: 17 - 89%
Free kicks: 3 - 16%
Penalties: 5 - 26%

That is terrible. These are worse than the Italy vs New Zealand figures. Maybe it's another aberration - or maybe the message has not got to the role-players at club level.

[Lee Grant]

AndyS

I see the solution to the scrum reset problem in simpler terms; though my explanation is long-winded.

As an old codger I have seen the scrum evolve. In my young days front rowers bound on to each other and folded into the other front row, then the two 2nd rowers from each team would bind and put their noggins in; then the back rowers took their places. The whole process took about 5-10 seconds, if that.

There was no collapsing from power hits as we see today because one fellow doesn't quite hit his target or because his legs aren't bent enough - or his bum is too high and he goes down – or too low and he stands up.

And that's before any cheating is done.

In the old days there was fairly static contact as each row bound on. The pressure came on when the ball was thrown into the scrum – and didn't the defending hooker compete because the ball had to be put down the middle?

There wasn't a lot of hitting power because they were already in contact: just pushing power as the ball went in. It sounds gentle and easy, but it wasn't. The teams with the best technique and strength won scrum dominance as they do today – but there weren't so many collapses as now nor so many impact neck injuries to front rowers.

The power hit is a fairly recent thing. I was watching a replay of the 1987 RWC final yesterday and it is surprising how tame those scrums looked. The hit has become more pronounced in the professional era and I suppose it is because front rowers now have time to work on their neck muscles.

So; what should we have now?

My idea is to have the scrums closer and use a “crouch and pause”command. Players would crouch and creep forward or back until the ref is satisfied that the top of the heads line up. The pause would be a real lining up pause. Then he would step back and say: “Engage”. The players necks would travel just 15cms forward on a benign hit.

Or maybe there could be a “Crouch and touch” command and the touch is a touching of players necks after creeping forward. No pushing yet. Then maybe: “Pause” and “Engage”. Too soft? It wasn't in the old days.

Now inferior scrums get a break from this trick or that or from the ref. We see superior scrums getting pinged because the referees guess too much, yet they posture and prattle to their assessors as though they know what happened. They have to guess because despite what training they may have had, not a lot of ex-props have the whistle.

The power hit is not a grand tradition of our sport, it is an abomination. Year after year the average number of resets increases just like global warming. Everybody says it's a pity that both are happening but not a lot of lateral thinking is done about either.

Whilst I am changing the laws here I would like clearer instructions. The laws shouldn't state that a prop should be in a position to push forward – they should state that a prop's chest and hips should be square on the engage and that he should push forward on the engage and not step out whilst doing so.

After an engage I have no qualms about wheeling so long the defending THP doesn't pull back – it's a scrumming skill.

[Action Hardcore]

12

[brokendown gunfighter]

12

leave your IQ out of this AH