O'Neill plays down talk of crisis in state ranks

[hotstuff]

Pretty rubbery figures I know, but a back of an envelope working comes up with an example of the kind of gross profits possible in a fully supported and developed national comp.

8 Teams 1 Round:

4 matches x 9 weeks x 10,000 av attendence x $30 av ticket = $10.8m
3 finals x 20,000 av attendence x $35 av ticket = $2.1m
= $12.9m GP

8 Teams 2 Rounds Home & Away:

4 matches x 18 weeks x 10,000 av attendence x $30 av ticket = $21.6m
3 finals x 20,000 av attendence x $35 av ticket = $2.1m
= $23.7m GP

10 Teams 1 Round:

5 matches x 9 weeks x 10,000 av attendence x $30 av ticket = $13.5m
3 finals x 20,000 av attendence x $35 av ticket = $2.1m
= $15.6m GP

10 Teams 2 Rounds Home & Away:

5 matches x 18 weeks x 10,000 av attendence x $30 av ticket = $27.0m
3 finals x 20,000 av attendence x $35 av ticket = $2.1m
= $29.1m GP

12 Teams 1 Round:

6 matches x 9 weeks x 10,000 av attendence x $30 av ticket = $16.2m
3 finals x 20,000 av attendence x $35 av ticket = $2.1m
= $18.3m GP

12 Teams 2 Rounds Home & Away:

6 matches x 18 weeks x 10,000 av attendence x $30 av ticket = $32.4m
3 finals x 20,000 av attendence x $35 av ticket = $2.1m
= $34.5m GP

If the ARU couldn't make a profit out of those kind of scenarios then perhaps they should be looking for a new Management and Board.
Let alone the extra exposure for our playing stocks.

Non S14 Required to make a 30 man Squad:
(Currently 120 S14 - 30 Wallabies = 90)

8 teams = 150 players
10 teams = 210 players
12 teams = 270 players

Total Players in 22 Man Squads:

8 teams = 176 players
10 teams = 220 players
12 teams = 264 players

Total Players in 30 Man Squads:

8 teams = 240 players
10 teams = 300 players
12 teams = 360 players

Total Players in 35 man squads:

8 teams = 280 players
10 teams = 350 players
12 teams = 420 players

But hey, "Australian rugby only gets a chance now and again to expand its footprint"...

this is the most optimistic set of figures in the history of australian sport!
how the hell does a comp, that will be branded second string to any outsider looking in attract 10 thousand to a game, rugby league thats been going for 100 years struggles to get that on some gates, no one wants to watch the spirit but people in perth. its true. if the spirit fly to melbourne to play the rebels and there is another sport on the same day, no one is going to watch but those with family there.

who is going to broadcast a game without the stars in it. the wallabies would be missing and every television station in the country isnt going to invest money in that. The NRL have an under 20's comp and they pay foxtel to broadcast one game a round so it gets exposure for toyota, there main sponsor. but chasing anywhere near enough dollars to keep this idea sustainable is a complete joke.

blaming sydney clubs is even more degrading. i know most people outside of sydney and brisbane think that people "are fighting the spread of the game" but the local club scene isnt viable in sydney, most clubs struggle year to year, there is only a handfull of clubs that do anything near good bussiness and even then there not really doing well out of it. to take players away from it will deminish it and they have every right to fight that as they have been fighting for more than a century for there team. how would you feel if a new company opened next door to you and kept taking your best workers and affecting your profit margin?

ad to that that if the arc takes off and there is 8 teams, then half the sydney or brisbane clubs go under, were do the players start to come from to fill the arc team? the talent pool below the arc becomes less and its a flow on affect, for another 7 games. why not just make club rugby strong, its only for a month or two anyway, the system is already there as is the grounds. why not concentrate on building a perth club culture that will see the best players in perth stay in perth and have a rugby carnival where the best two clubs from each state play off or something, a new comp will always die in the ass.

the ARC almost sent the ARU broke. we have 15 million in the bank now thanks to JON cutting costs and saving. thats from the 50 million we made from the world cup. the kiwis are yet to host a world cup and they have a reserve of 70 million and thats after giving every home union grants to update stadiums etc. goes to show that australian rugby isnt in a position to push forward with pipe dreams.

you all make me laugh so hard,
no wonder perth is so backwater!

[beige]

You know if you hadn't insulted every single person on here with those last two lines I would have said that was a very well put argument.

[travelling_gerry]

you all make me laugh so hard,
no wonder perth is so backwater!

Written spoken and authorised by the "I hate anything Western Force party" -
WJ President.

[Darren]

I thought the attendance figures were a bit of a stretch also, however after re-reading the opening sentence:

Pretty rubbery figures I know, but a back of an envelope working comes up with an example of the kind of gross profits possible in a fully supported and developed national comp.

These numbers would be the ultimate goal, not the immediate expectation.

no wonder perth is so backwater!

Perth a backwater? Pretty ironic comment coming from the rugby backwaters of NSW ....

[Burgs]

People rarely read full posts Coach, they read what they want to see
As I clarified already with Jargs later on, it was an end goal and even at half the participation it was still around $6m for an 8 team one round (ie as with ARC).
I'm sure the AFL and NRL would be delighted to hear such negativity as to the potential for Union to grow its base.
What makes me laugh is people who join a forum to place a post like that, as you say beige, a well argued position until the game is given away in the last two lines.

[jargan83]

I'm surpirsed WJ can argue that well

[AndyS]

It certainly reads like a rant and run.

Some good points about ambition relative to League, but notes that it is only "some" gates and that there are a number of League matches each weekend while only a few ARC. Overall, I don't think the numbers that ambitious as a goal, given a will and some actual effort to try and make it work.

What makes me laugh is that all the arguments apply even more to club rugby. If an elite semi-pro competition pitting eight teams of the best against each other won't work, how much less likely is it that folk will watch the same players spread out over four times as many teams? He says it himself, "the local club scene isnt viable in sydney, most clubs struggle year to year, there is only a handfull of clubs that do anything near good bussiness and even then there not really doing well out of it". So we have a model that patently doesn't work, but apparently the solution is just to "make club rugby strong". Now where did I put that magic wand again? The funniest bit was "how would you feel if a new company opened next door to you and kept taking your best workers and affecting your profit margin?". Maybe it is just me, but I think that is actually the definition of "progress". But I am not sure the problem of Rugby being dragged down by outdated amateur structures and antiquated attitudes could be better summarised than by that one question. I bet the writer works in the coal industry.

The strange thing is that such a big deal is made about tradition when I would have said that, by definition, the Sydney and Brisbane clubs were traditionally the pinnacle of amateur rugby. My personal opinion is that the vast majority of the current problems of Rugby in Australia can be traced back to those structures being inadequate and inappropriate for a professional environment, and I think the best interests of everyone might be best served by going back to the very traditions they seem to have forgotten.

But then I just started to get annoyed with blind and self-serving arguments.
"why not concentrate on building a perth club culture that will see the best players in perth stay in perth" - Um, because our Wallabies, Aus A players, Sevens players etc (by definition our best players) are all forced to play in Sydney by logistics. Unless the ARU has offered to fly them all back for club matches...?

"the ARC almost sent the ARU broke." - Yeah, I would have said not so much. I think it was probably the endless stream of money poured into NSW and Q'ld rugby, at the same time attendances in those places seem to be on the slide unless the team had League players involved (and what that says about "grassroots" support never seems to attract much comment). In fact, given that we only get $200k a year, the money from our Test attendance is also being poured down the same drain. The ARU turns over $90M a year, and very little of it comes this way (or to the ACT) - someone must be able to do the math.

"we have 15 million in the bank now thanks to JON cutting costs and saving." - Really? That must have been a lot of money being wasted then, wasn't it? No wonder an ARC couldn't be afforded...

"the kiwis are yet to host a world cup and they have a reserve of 70 million and thats after giving every home union grants to update stadiums etc. goes to show that australian rugby isnt in a position to push forward with pipe dreams." - Really again? What a healthy structure and brand they must have, robustly underpinned as it is by a proper semi-professional structure ensuring a constant supply of players near ready for professional Rugby, rather than having to take players straight from a struggling, mostly amateur club system.

What what the hell, at least we make them laugh. But to borrow from Mr Gump, I'd've said a backwater is as a backwater does and at least we are looking forward.

[Darren]

yeah - that's what I meant ..

[Burgs]

Or, at least if we are a backwater we have potential to improve, what's NSW's excuse...

[GIGS20]

"we have 15 million in the bank now thanks to JON cutting costs and saving." - Really? That must have been a lot of money being wasted then, wasn't it? No wonder an ARC couldn't be afforded...

I would say so, no wonder we couldn't afford the 4 million dollar cost of the ARC.......I guess we can afford it now though!

[beige]

I hope they fix it first then...