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Thread: New Zealand's only World Cup winning captain becomes an Aussie

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    New Zealand's only World Cup winning captain becomes an Aussie

    New Zealand's only World Cup winning captain becomes an Aussie


    Article Published: Monday 26 January 2009
    Edited by: Rugbyweek.com


    The All Blacks and New Zealand suffered a shock loss Monday when the only All Blacks skipper to hoist the rugby World Cup switched teams and became an Australian.

    David Kirk, who led the All Blacks to victory in the inaugural 1987 World Cup final, became Australia's newest citizen in a ceremony aptly held on Australia Day.

    "We've lived here as a family for 10 years. My children have grown up here, particularly the younger one, and it just seemed like the right time," he told Television Three News.

    But Kirk said his heart still belonged to New Zealand and he would hold dual citizenship.

    "I grew up in New Zealand. My heart, my emotion, my commitment of course is to New Zealand."

    Kirk also confirmed he would always back the All Blacks over the Wallabies.
    "Of course I'm an All Blacks supporter. I'm a massive All Blacks supporter and it's the All Blacks all the way."

    Sapa-AFP - Rugbyweek.com

    http://www.rugbyweek.com/news/article.asp?id=17850

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    Veteran Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    So this worm becomes an Australian for what he can get out of it, but in all other respects promises to remain a New Zealander?

    He breaks his oath of loyalty almost as soon as he makes it.

    I have no problem with people retaining the culture and social mores of their homeland, or even supporting their home team in sport, but to say that their "commitment is to New Zealand" is an insult to the citizenship they have been granted here.

    Imagine the uproar if a Somali or Iraqi refugee made the same statement.

    This ungrateful bum should be kicked out of the country.

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    The Australian Citizenship Oath or Affirmation tries to capture the essence of what it means to be Australian, it reads as follows:

    From this time forward [under God] I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect and whose laws I will uphold and obey.

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    Veteran TOCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulvio sammut View Post
    So this worm becomes an Australian for what he can get out of it, but in all other respects promises to remain a New Zealander?

    He breaks his oath of loyalty almost as soon as he makes it.

    I have no problem with people retaining the culture and social mores of their homeland, or even supporting their home team in sport, but to say that their "commitment is to New Zealand" is an insult to the citizenship they have been granted here.

    Imagine the uproar if a Somali or Iraqi refugee made the same statement.

    This ungrateful bum should be kicked out of the country.
    please, thats Australias history, there is nothing wrong with what he said, and no you cant compare Somalia/Iraq to New Zealand, they are completely different situations and circumstances.

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    Senior Player Contributor Cowboy's Avatar
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    I would beg to differ TOCC, I think that they are identical situations. Anyone who wishes to be an australian citizen should do so because they are committed to our system of democracy, respect for each other and freedom. In a sentence he indicated that he does not hold any commitment to what he vowed. Makes it appear meaningless regardless of where he is from.

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    Veteran Swee_82's Avatar
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    Fulvio's right.... if anyone wearing a hijab or the like said something like that it would be plastered over every tabloid newspaper in the country, spawn hour upon hour of well informed 'love it or leave it' commentry on talkback and more meaningless questions added to the citizenship test.

    I get the impression that TOCCs point was that New Zealand basically holds the same value set as Australia (democracy, freedom etc) that holding "New Zealand values" doesn't contradict the oath of Australian citizenship, where swearing continued loyalty to a nation under dictatorial rule or sharia law would, but regardless, if your loyalty is first and foremost to another sovreign nation, why bother becoming a citizen of another?

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    Last edited by Swee_82; 27-01-09 at 10:30.

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    Exactly Swee, Why did he bother?

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    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travelling_gerry View Post
    ...
    David Kirk, who led the All Blacks to victory in the inaugural 1987 World Cup final, became Australia's newest citizen in a ceremony aptly held on Australia Day.
    ....
    a) "became Australia's newest citizen" - until the next person in the list of thousands does it.

    b) "in a ceremony aptly held on Australia Day" - why is it apt when its the only day it happens?

    stupid media.

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    Veteran TOCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
    I would beg to differ TOCC, I think that they are identical situations. Anyone who wishes to be an australian citizen should do so because they are committed to our system of democracy, respect for each other and freedom. In a sentence he indicated that he does not hold any commitment to what he vowed. Makes it appear meaningless regardless of where he is from.
    your kidding, they are no where near identical situations, New Zealand is practically a state of Australia and that is relfected by by the lesser visa regulations between the two. As opposed to refugees from Somalia or Iraq who have next to no affiliation with Australia whatsoever.

    At no point has he said he holds no commitment for what he vowed, he said:

    "I grew up in New Zealand. My heart, my emotion, my commitment of course is to New Zealand."

    So, New Zealand holds sentimental value to him, so what, its just like anyones homeland, doesnt mean he is committed to Australia. On top of that Australia allows dual citizenship, which in itself allows a contradiction to the pledge.

    Its all semantics really, it doesnt mean shit at the end of the day, if i moved to another state i would still call myself a QLDer, that doesnt mean i am going to go against the values and ideas of my new home.

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    maybe someone just needs to ask him which citizenship he'd give up if it came to it.

    I'm not a big fan of the dual citizenship

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    Neither am I it is a stupid idea

    Anyone else remember all the Lebanese people crying out for Australian Govenrment help in 2006 when the Isrealis decided to start bombing the crap out of Lebanon becasue they held dual citizenship? Some of them hadn't lived in Australia for years

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueandblack View Post
    a) "became Australia's newest citizen" - until the next person in the list of thousands does it.

    b) "in a ceremony aptly held on Australia Day" - why is it apt when its the only day it happens?

    stupid media.

    citizenship ceremonies are held throughout the year,some public,some private


    notice captain Kirk recently got the DCM from Fairfax

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    Quote Originally Posted by brokendown gunfighter View Post

    notice captain Kirk recently got the DCM from Fairfax
    Was that in the Australia Day Honours List?


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    Quote Originally Posted by TOCC View Post
    your kidding, they are no where near identical situations, New Zealand is practically a state of Australia and that is relfected by by the lesser visa regulations between the two. As opposed to refugees from Somalia or Iraq who have next to no affiliation with Australia whatsoever.

    At no point has he said he holds no commitment for what he vowed, he said:

    "I grew up in New Zealand. My heart, my emotion, my commitment of course is to New Zealand."

    So, New Zealand holds sentimental value to him, so what, its just like anyones homeland, doesnt mean he is committed to Australia. On top of that Australia allows dual citizenship, which in itself allows a contradiction to the pledge.

    Its all semantics really, it doesnt mean shit at the end of the day, if i moved to another state i would still call myself a QLDer, that doesnt mean i am going to go against the values and ideas of my new home.
    I would hope that regardless of the nation from which any new citizen hails that taking what is effectively an oath of allegiance to Australia should mean exactly that. You are right in pointing out the contradiction of dual citizenship, and only the person doing the talking can know if they mean it or not.
    I personally don't care if a migrant from Somalia or Lebanon etc arrives and decides that we would all be better off if we were all muslim and followed sharia law. Provided that they honour the oath they took and were committed to pushing their cause through our political system, feel free. I know all that would be achieved is

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