No.15 Wallabies race heats up for Cameron Shepherd

[KenyaQuin]

Absolute rubbish I'm sorry Jehna, a Wallabies Cap (or any countries for that matter)should always go to the player most worthy of it. It is for this exact reason we continue to bag the weak teams sent over to play test matches. It has to stop. A cap is cap, the best of the best. A cap is not for developing players, Australia A is.

Got to agree with you TIF. Look what happened last year to the ABs (there, I've said it). Experimenting and constant tweaking of the lineup will make it difficult to establish critical combination pairings which in the end will hurt.

[BLR]

In addition to that BLR, we're not pitching a world cup team this year. There is no need to field a team which has the best of the best playing. It is the perfect opportunity to field those with talent who can and will improve. Hence Sheps should be considered first and foremost.

Agreed, I think one of our problems in the past as that we have stuck too much with the old tried and proven method of choosing players without taking a punt on a new and exciting player with lots of potential. I remember it was around the period Sean Fitzpatrick retires (I think, or maybe a little after that) alot of the current All Blacks retired and they went into a slight gulf in form but soon after they came back as strong as ever as they blooded new talent through neccesity. We didn't do this before the World Cup hence our bad performance. We can either keep going through and settling with the same mediocrity and making the safe bets or take a punt every now and again. Even if it means having the team being the safe option with the bench containing young up and comers who coudl come in with 20 minutes to go and taste international rugby.

Who knows, we could find another Mark Ella.

In Robbie we Trust, if anyone can do us proud he can.

[The InnFORCEr]

Agreed, I think one of our problems in the past as that we have stuck too much with the old tried and proven method of choosing players without taking a punt on a new and exciting player with lots of potential. I remember it was around the period Sean Fitzpatrick retires (I think, or maybe a little after that) alot of the current All Blacks retired and they went into a slight gulf in form but soon after they came back as strong as ever as they blooded new talent through neccesity. We didn't do this before the World Cup hence our bad performance. We can either keep going through and settling with the same mediocrity and making the safe bets or take a punt every now and again. Even if it means having the team being the safe option with the bench containing young up and comers who coudl come in with 20 minutes to go and taste international rugby.

Who knows, we could find another Mark Ella.

In Robbie we Trust, if anyone can do us proud he can.

I challenge you BLR or anyone else that thinks we did not do exactly this in the lead up to RWC 2007. Find the test teams that played before the RWC and the RWC teams and see how different they are, no consistancy. Then have a look at the teams from previous RWC's and lead up test teams. When we won them (yes both World Cups, just for KQ, and that last minute loss, just for you LTP) the best players were picked consistantly. If there is another Ella out there, he'll come through the ranks and make it to the top if he "really" is another Ella.

[BLR]

I challenge you BLR or anyone else that thinks we did not do exactly this in the lead up to RWC 2007. Find the test teams that played before the RWC and the RWC teams and see how different they are, no consistancy. Then have a look at the teams from previous RWC's and lead up test teams. When we won them (yes both World Cups, just for KQ, and that last minute loss, just for you LTP) the best players were picked consistantly. If there is another Ella out there, he'll come through the ranks and make it to the top if he "really" is another Ella.

I think a large amount of the problems with both the AB's and Wallabies campaign is not the right management, now the AB's still have the same management and we will see how it will pan out if it lasts until the next world cup. Ours however has of course gone and we have a real opportunity to change things. There was no consistency in the lead up to the world cup I believe because we realised that the past four years we have done nothing but allow Australian rugby to stagnate, case in point: the scrum. Our scrum is basically a folding chair and we simply didn't have any of the talent to save it in time, now we have four years.

The thing I like about Robbie Deans is that he can take a team like the Crusaders, who were at the time he started getting heavily involved were underperformers at best and then raised them up until the absolute juggernauts that they are today. He didn't do this by using money to buy up plenty of players, he did it by identifying good talent and getting them to play as a team. If you look at the Crusaders team, there are good players but many aren't world beaters but once you put them as a team under the rule of Robbie Deans they are extremely formidable. Robbie didn't do this by sticking with who people thought he should and letting his players play on through thier twilight years but he choose who he wanted and the team is much better for it.

He built the Crusaders from nothing, I want him to build the Wallabies from nothing, with no player guaranteed a place with the ultimate goal of the world cup in his sights, and to do that we need to blood this exciting new talent now rather then 3 years from now when we can't change a thing...

[Jehna]

Absolute rubbish I'm sorry Jehna, a Wallabies Cap (or any countries for that matter)should always go to the player most worthy of it. It is for this exact reason we continue to bag the weak teams sent over to play test matches. It has to stop. A cap is cap, the best of the best. A cap is not for developing players, Australia A is.

Ouch. Thanks TIF I was going to say perhaps you misunderstood me and I should have made myself clearer but I think gustafsl did it for me and you disagreed.

I certainly do NOT support giving a wallabies cap to a player who doesn't deserve it. But what I do support is giving a slightly younger and perhaps more inexperienced player the chance to gain the experience necessary to be the best. Both Sheps and Gerrard are fabulous players and both deserve to be in the Wallabies. But, imho, given that it isn't a world cup year this is our opportunity to build. So when we put a team on the field, it may not be the perfect line up possible, but it allows development and experience and in end, allows us to know that in 2011 we are fielding the best team we possibly can in the world cup.

As a fan I would like to see them pick the best team possible to win every match. But at the same time part of player development is to give them a go at the top level. So I wouldn't be too disapointed if for one or two tests this year, Tom Carter got a go at inside centre and Mortlock took a game or two off.

Couldn't agree more gustafsl.

TIF - what are your thoughts on Mitchell's experimentation this year with the Force line up? Or, what are your thoughts resting players in a major campaign like the World Cup against teams we know we can easily beat? For me, I see this as being being beneficial in two ways - firstly, it gives the old boys a chance to rest so they'll be fit when we really need them. Secondly, it gives the new generation a chance to be tested at the top level. They need to be tested TIF and better to do it slowly and gradually when we have the experience to back up then when we've got no other option.

[The InnFORCEr]

TIF - what are your thoughts on Mitchell's experimentation this year with the Force line up? Or, what are your thoughts resting players in a major campaign like the World Cup against teams we know we can easily beat? For me, I see this as being being beneficial in two ways - firstly, it gives the old boys a chance to rest so they'll be fit when we really need them. Secondly, it gives the new generation a chance to be tested at the top level. They need to be tested TIF and better to do it slowly and gradually when we have the experience to back up then when we've got no other option.

Force - This is a copy taken from Officail Force documnets http://www.westernforce.com.au/verve...gbyWAA5Bro.pdf

"The Emirates Western Force squad is made up of full-time professional rugby players with the aim of expanding the base of potential Wallabies by recruiting players eligible to play for Australia."

Our job is to build Wallabies, first and foremost. If that means a bit of "rotation" during Super 14, that is what should be done. I look forward to next year when Robbie is full control and see what, pressure he applies to Super 14 coaches in order to achive the ultimate goal.

BTW, I don't really think there was to much "experimentation" going on, the best players that were fit got the gig. Take Pusey for instance, played game 1 ok, Tom got a go and played exceptional and he stayed there until he was injured and Puse just had to sit back, keep fit and wait. Even the kids getting a run in recent weeks is not experimentation, it's playing your best players. If you can point out some examples of "experimentation" for me please do, I'm not always right.

Resting in RWC - Does not work, as I said before look at our past RWC, when have won, or just lost a final, there has been consistancy, the best players playing. Want to rest a player and give another a go, use the bench and Australia A, not a RWC match, no matter who you are playing. As we saw in RWC 2007, anyone "could" beat anyone, who would have picked the Argies to finish as well as they did.

[Burgs]

Mmm, some passion about Rugby for a change, love it

A couple of points.

I totally agree that Test Caps are not for experimenting with.
More work needs to be done getting combinations right etc at Australia A level and Australia A should be playing far more fixtures than they are at the moment.
To play the Maori All Blacks is more than enough hard opposition to test out development players.

I believe that not all matches should be Test status for the National team and that these are the matches that you "blood" any development players in, that is how it was done in the touring years with mid week matches.

I also believe that Australia should put far more emphasis on winning the Unders Championships (now Under 20). I think this year we may see our best players available going. This is where you develop the unity and spirit between fellow players that will last them and serve them well in their future Wallaby days.
The article yesterday re Beale and Cooper mentions several times their bond from two years in the Australian Schoolboys team.
It was also where arguably the best Wallabies ever, the '84 Grand Slammers, developed with a Australian Schoolboys Tour to the UK, the fabled "Schoolboys in the Mist".

With the World Cup, I feel it does the player you rest far more "damage" for the next fixture than it benefits the player you sub in. (Assuming both players are fit, ie no injury concerns to blur the selection process)
I believe that it is your best XV every time there is a Cap at stake and bad luck to whatever team gets in the way.
A training run against a Georgia or Namibia by the first pick team will be of far greater benefit than to rest them and play the Squad. Far better to let the Test team sit out a training or two than to break up the combination on match day.

I agree that our four Super 14 Squads are where it's at for putting the blowtorch onto a junior. The top six or seven teams in a given season would be competitive at International level.
However, I do think that the Squads should be larger so that an A comp can run as a curtain raiser to every match, or at least between the four Australian teams.

That's it for now

[KenyaQuin]

I believe that not all matches should be Test status for the National team and that these are the matches that you "blood" any development players in, that is how it was done in the touring years with mid week matches.

Good point Burgs re the touring years. The one-off tests are a classic example of how much rugby has changed in the last 15-20 years. The mid week games were not only good for the secong stringers (and opportunity to get the-up-and-coming some valuable game time) but was good for local crowds as well and contributed to the general hype buildup for the weekend test games.