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Thread: The "Deanes Years" commence.

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    The "Deans Years" commence.

    Deans wants Super 14 coaches as selectors

    ALL four Australian Super 14 coaches will be asked to become Wallabies squad selectors as part of new national coach Robbie Deans's plan to choose the best Test team possible.

    The policy of inclusion aims to provide the often-divided Australian provinces with a fair and influential say in the make-up of Wallabies train-on squads before they are cut to Test teams.

    It will also ensure Deans has a selection process in place - and a means for an open channel of communication with his selectors - while fulfilling his final commitments as a New Zealand Rugby Union employee in charge of the Canterbury Crusaders.

    Deans is duty-bound by his Kiwi agreement not to work with the Wallabies in NZRU time. But he is aware that, with three weeks between the Super 14 final at the end of May and Australia's first domestic Test against Ireland, there is little time to assemble and prepare a side, especially if no selection process is implemented during the Super 14.

    Certainly, any Wallabies selection meetings initiated by Deans during the Super 14 would not go down well with the NZRU. But if his plan to appoint the Australian Super 14 coaches as squad selectors is approved by the Australian Rugby Union, which signed him before Christmas, nothing can stop them approaching him for meetings during the Super 14.

    The process is due to start next week when the Crusaders travel to Melbourne to play the Force for the first of their two Super 14 trials in Australia. The following week, the Crusaders will head to Sydney to play the Waratahs for the Rotomahana Cup.

    Deans unveiled his plan to circumnavigate the selection hurdle when asked how he intended to analyse the performances of Australian players and expand his relationships with Ewen McKenzie [Waratahs], Laurie Fisher [Brumbies], John Mitchell [Western Force] and Phil Mooney [Queensland] in a bid to gain their input for selections.

    "I observe as I do through Super rugby, and I have connections. But the most obvious are the Super rugby coaches," Deans told the Herald. "The key is to involve them in selection genuinely, and in the preparation [of the squad] as we go around in those [provincial] areas.

    "I am going out early here, but through the interview process I already tabled [the plan]."

    Deans is confident the ARU will support his plan, which, he reiterated, was for the selection of the extended Wallabies squads only - not the reduced line-ups for Tests or tours.

    "They [will be] the selection panel. I have had no resistance [from the ARU] so far," Deans said. "It's exciting. No one person owns all the ideas, nor all the understanding."

    Deans acknowledged the hurdles he would face to gain statistical data and other information on Australian players without breaching his NZRU deal. "One challenge from my perspective, in terms of Australia, will be getting access to, and addressing, some of the habits, skill and conditioning that will be part of discussions we have. In terms of statistics, I am coming in cold. That is going to be novel. But I have a [four-year] term and perhaps that might be a good thing. It will give me time to observe things."

    Deans stressed his wish to nurture a strong relationship with the Super 14 coaches and provinces was not for his gain only but also to help them where possible. He said he wouldn't intervene in their programs and preparations, especially by trying to pressure them into making selections, as has happened in the past.

    "It just doesn't work. It's not for me to to stick my nose in and say you need this. To build relationships is two-way. I don't see myself as coming in to create change. If I can offer input, I will. If they see me as having something to offer, then well and good."


    Musical chairs, and Robbie will stop the music

    January 23, 2008

    AUSTRALIA coach Robbie Deans has privately settled on the names of his assistant coaches, and confirmed that not all the incumbents will keep their jobs.

    But the line-up of the backroom staff, he reiterated, is almost certain to be made up of Australians. "As I have said, one Kiwi will be adequate," Deans insisted.

    Asked if he had the names of his assistants in his mind, Deans said: "Yeah … but there is nothing concluded. And obviously there are incumbents, so there are processes that have to be followed. But Pat Howard [ARU high-performance director] is driving that."

    Deans said it was "great" that Wallabies forwards coach Michael Foley had publicly declared a wish to keep the job he took up in 2006 for last year's World Cup campaign.

    "It's clear he is keen to continue. But who knows? They may all be keen to," Deans said, referring to Wallabies assistants Scott Johnson [backs] and John Muggleton [defence]. But the reality of the circumstances is that that opportunity won't be there for all [of them]. I envisage the [ARU] will be keen to announce it in one hit. I am also going to pick up some roles."


    Rupert Guinness in Christchurch | January 23, 2008

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    Last edited by Burgs; 23-01-08 at 09:28.
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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Deansey looks like a great manager of talent, He could well be the breath of fresh air the ARU needs in this position.

    The idea of giving the S14 coaches equal selection merit for the train on squads is inspired. It'll get all the politicking out of the picture. I can just imagine how Link will react, he'll probably put up 35 players! All negativity aside though, this will definitely improve the chances of great talent in our backyard who've been generally overlooked recently (Yes I am talking specifically about Mat Henjak) Bamm Bamm should get a look in this year, Scotty Fava might get a go if he can find the handle better this year, As a matter of fact, we've probably got quite a few loose forwards who could benefit, since Phil Waugh is such a muppet!

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    Champion KenyaQuin's Avatar
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    I spoke to John Mitchell (apparently we are best mates now )at the Meet-the-players day and asked him whether he would consider or has considered deputising/assisting Deans in an official capacity considering their past history. He suggested that a formal assistant role was not a consideration however he saw himself as possibly being Deans' sympathetic ear and/or pillar of support within the S14 coaches group and the wider, sometimes hostile, Australian rugby community should the need arise.

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    Champion Contributor no.8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post

    But the line-up of the backroom staff, he reiterated, is almost certain to be made up of Australians. "As I have said, one Kiwi will be

    1. enough
    2. too many
    3. not required

    ," Deans insisted.
    There was obviously a misprint, take your pick!! Go !

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    Veteran Jess's Avatar
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    So how would that work exactly? Having each Aus super 14 coach be part of the selection panel. Would each get a certain quota of players or would they all have to diplomatically pick and choose the entire team. Wouldn't each be bias towards their own super 14 team's players? Or will they talk about it all and compromise and then Deans gets the final say? I understand having three weeks to pick a team would be tricky given his obligations in NZ but is he expecting the whole team to be selected by the time he gets back?

    I am just struggling to get my head around this one.

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    Well, if it were me...each S14 coach goes through his list and describes his players, highlighting those he thinks are the business and why (not that the other coaches won't already have a fair idea who he has got anyway). Then, each coach picks a squad using only players from the other three provinces. Tot up the list and pick all but 8 of the squad based on collective ranking. Each coach is then able to nominate an additional two players that he feels have been underappreciated or would benefit from the experience.

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    Champion Contributor Jehna's Avatar
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    I see your point Jess but still I'm quite optimistic about it. I'm assuming that whilst the super 14 coaches are on the panel they're needs to be mutual agreement on players. So whilst bias may influence their nominations they still require agreement from the other selectors so it is going to be a case of continued compromise...that's probably a good thing...hopefully it will mean we get a varied selection. I'm also assuming Deans will have an overriding vote or something like that given he is the actual coach.

    Interesting as well the comments about assistant coaches. I'm a little disappointed to hear Deans confirm that positions will be lost. But I guess if he'll be taking on more of a role then it hopefully the team shouldn't suffer. We def need a forwards coach and i'm assuming he will be keeping Muggleton on so perhaps we lose our attack coach? I think that'd be a shame but then apparently its all about commercial value these days..

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    Veteran Jess's Avatar
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    Will be a refreshing change from John 'I love the Tahs' Connolly.

    Will be good to see a more varied line up! I'm optimistic too... was just a bit confused. I'm sure the exact details of the selection process will be made public closer to the selection time.

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehna View Post
    I'm a little disappointed to hear Deans confirm that positions will be lost. But I guess if he'll be taking on more of a role then it hopefully the team shouldn't suffer. We def need a forwards coach and i'm assuming he will be keeping Muggleton on so perhaps we lose our attack coach?
    I think Deans hinted from the outset that he'd be more hands-on. Being a back in his palying days he may want to run the attack mostly himself. The area where the Wallabies have always been top tier is defense so I'd hope Muggo still has a role under the new "regime". Forwards Coach? We'll we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS
    Then, each coach picks a squad using only players from the other three provinces................Each coach is then able to nominate an additional two players that he feels have been underappreciated.

    A good concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    John 'I love the Tahs' Connolly.
    Hey Gerry, can you ask if he's ever been called that before?

    I think Robbie's set it up pretty well on this one, basically it seems there will be a selection panel of five where he would get the casting vote.
    I reckon if you sat twenty fans from each of the four teams down in a room, once the blood had stopped flowing they would have agreed on probably three quarters of a thirty man squad.
    It's probably more the inside knowledge of the fringe players that he is after and then once they are in camp it is selection on merit by the active coaching panel.
    That's my reading of it anyway.

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    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jess
    John 'I love the Tahs' Connolly.


    Considering Connolly is a queenslander i reckon not...


    I like Andys idea regarding selections, good concept...

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    Veteran Jess's Avatar
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    Just referring to a few world cup squad selection choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    Hey Gerry, can you ask if he's ever been called that before?

    .

    I am VERY confident he has never been accused of that before.

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    My call would be to give the coaches all the rope they want, If you think a guy is good enough for national selection, I want to see him.

    Back up your list with stats (That mean something, none of this 'he ran in seven tries in one match....it was against the Reds, but we know he can do it' crap) and a brief justification of your selection in writing.

    As a panel, we all agree on the parameters that are required in the Wallabies team for each position, where Robbie has a heavy influence (since, he's the guy with the big picture) and the coaches come up with a selection camp where the contenders for each position go at it to prove they have the best skill set.

    Pros - It's a true meritocracy, even if one coach has the power to influence all the others and nominate as many bodies as he wants, as well as influencing the parameters by which they are judged, a good player still has the opportunity to perform in a test of their skills.

    It also Isolates Deans from the actual player contact part of the selection process. Surely he is not in breach of contract by saying 'I want a Winger who is capable of running a 10.5 second hundred, who is 85 Kilos and able to compete for the high ball both in the air and on the ground"

    Cons - the main one I can see is the cost, both in time and players out of action, this system will encourage a much larger train on squad, and this will also take a long time to 'winnow out' down to a manageable 30 or 40 players who will be the first training squad for the Deans Wallabies.

    I personally think Robbie should retain a larger playing group this year than is usual, since he won't be able to look as closely at the talent this season.

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    the whingling and bitching has started already..

    Fisher loathe to help out Deans


    Fisher loathe to help out Deans - Rugby - Fox Sports
    By Jim Morton
    January 23, 2008 NEW Australia rugby coach Robbie Deans' dual roles are complicating his plans to use rival Australian Super 14 coaches as quasi-Test selectors.

    Brumbies coach Laurie Fisher is loathe to agree to Deans' plan to consult him and his three fellow Australian Super 14 mentors to decide upon extended Wallabies squads.

    The Christchurch-based Crusaders coach wants extra advice as he's duty bound by the New Zealand Rugby Union to complete his work with the Canterbury outfit before switching roles in late May.

    But Fisher is worried about discussing the strengths and weaknesses of his players when such inside information could be used against them if they met the Crusaders in the Super 14 finals.

    “In principle discussing players in depth as a Super 14 coach is a wonderful idea but while he's coaching a rival team it doesn't seem practical,” he said.

    “I'm not sure I can see the practicalities of discussing the pros and cons.”

    A surprised Fisher was also taken aback by the plans after only being alerted to them through an article in a newspaper.

    ”It concerns me that I read about it in a national newspaper before it's been discussed (with the coaches),” he said.

    But Queensland coach Phil Mooney, whose team meets the Crusaders in the penultimate round of the competition, has no such issues.

    “I think Robbie Deans would have a pretty good handle on players' strengths and weaknesses already,” he said.

    “It works two ways. I can aid him with background on my players and he can give me his feelings, which I can pass on to make them better players.”

    AAP

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