bristol refuse to release barbarians captain Mark Regan

[slomo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...ol/7114837.stm

also jason robinsons baa-bas finale
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/rugby_union/7113739.stm

[hopep]

I'll definitely need to find a place to watch the game, both teams look interesting.
As for Regan, I still don't get why England teams won't release players for interanationals. You'd think with England rugby in a mess - can't win a tournament for love nor money - the poms would sort it out.

They get nothing good out of it. The player is disgruntled and is likely to underperform, they get a black mark from the national body, and the spectators and sponsors have another 'administrative twat' to blame.

Who wins ?

[jargan83]

over in England it's getting to the point of where it's like Football (soccer) where clubs wont release players for internationals or when they do they bitch and moan about it

[Ecky]

Remember The Good Old Days? When players treated selection for the Baa Baas as an honour, and something to strive for?

[AndyS]

Agreed, but to be honest I don't think they should be playing Baa Baa games during anyones season - I know if Gits missed the Force/Crusaders match because he was playing for the Barbarians, I'd be fairly underwhelmed.

[jargan83]

true, but theres so much club rugby in England/Europe with all the various competitions, they've got to fit it in somewhere

[KenyaQuin]

I think in the next couple of seasons, if not sooner, the BaaBaas selection pool will diminish further eventuating in a defunct tour side, especially if they (unions/IRB) proceed with a single international season.

[slomo]

the ba bars and the lions are the only 2 traditional sides still playing at international level, but for how much longer?? id much rather watch an open running game that the bar bars play as opposed to the drivel thats played in the guiness premiership.....

[AndyS]

So you are saying friendlies are the way to go rather than tests, as teams will run and throw when there is nothing riding on it?

[slomo]

So you are saying friendlies are the way to go rather than tests, as teams will run and throw when there is nothing riding on it?

RWC 2007 final was boring as bat shit!! where as the 3/4 play off was one of the best games played, youve got to find a happy medium....

[Flat-top]

over in England it's getting to the point of where it's like Football (soccer) where clubs wont release players for internationals or when they do they bitch and moan about it

That's not the case at all...there is no equivalent in soccer for the Barbarians for a start.

The English RFU have only recently reached agreement with clubs, this agreement has dealt with the national game but not "barbarian friendlies".

This particular fixture is taking place on the same weekend as the EDF Cup (English & Welsh Clubs) and less than a week before some of the players originally selected for the BaaBaa's would be involved in European Cup games. The fans have to be considered and I for one am glad that my team has refused to field a weakened side on Friday even if it means the BaaBaa's lose out.

Jargan you say that "it has to be fitted in somewhere" because of the fixture congestion, I don't agree and the crowds we are getting in the European Leagues tend to support my case...who exactly wants this friendly? The SA's are not match fit and the organisers can't shift the tickets! I think you are holding on to some sort of romantic ideal of how the BaaBaa's games of old used to be, the professional age has made that something almost impossible to sustain.

[GIGS20]

I hear your argument FT, but rugby is a game, primarily, of tradition surely the Baa Baas is one tradition which should be held on to.

[Flat-top]

I hear your argument FT, but rugby is a game, primarily, of tradition surely the Baa Baas is one tradition which should be held on to.

I can't argue with that sentiment but I am a realist and it doesn't take an expert to work out that these issues were always going to surface if the fixture was crow-barred into the callendar on this week...I think the naivety is with the BaaBaa's selectors who must have known they couldn't rely on the release of key players from the NH, part of me thinks they included them just to wind up the issue once again.

By the way as a Bath supporter who watched Mark Regan and his Bristol side thumped last weekend with him, the great Bristol tallisman being taken off in desperation with 10 minutes to go, I am not convinced that his omission from the BaaBaa's is such a loss...I think your much used description of a whinging Pom has rarely suited someone.

[hopep]

Now Flat Top, you can't have it both ways. First you say the clubs are right as hes a key player and it would weaken their team, then you say he's (next to) useless - then why not release him.

No the arguement about the relevance of Barbarian games and where they get fixtured in - thats good. I had not considered that view, but will in future.

My gripe with English rugby was that they followed the 'soccer' model when they went professional. That is - the club owns the player and contract, the national team 'requests' a release. yes, the money and popularity is different but thats essentially my reading of the set-up. But International rugby has developed around Tests. Where the very best of two nations compete in a 'test' to see whos rugby is the best. Not, whose 'available on the day if we can afford to rent them' on the day.

Yes, Barbarian games are different. But to be invited you have to be considered excellent in International terms. Its a great honour. To refuse that honour because "I have regular work on that day" (profesional team commitment) is a bit rude.

Its a bit like me being invited to play for a TWF 15 on a mid-week 'freindly' against the Force, or a visiting International school boys team. Then my boss turning around and saying 'no you can't go' - I know what I would choose to do. But Regan is contracted, and the English Rugby clubs, in a similar vein to the soccer clubs, buy/own/sell (& bully) players as a commodity - not as people. That's where my gripe with the English system comes from.

If Reagan had said "thanks for the invite, I'm honoured but can't make it" that would be different. But after he's selected the club jumps up - perhaps it the ERU offered a payment, would that make the matter go away - then its only about money (again, player is a commodity only).

[slomo]

regan will captain baa baas no matter what bristol say ......

REGAN NAMED AS CAPTAIN\.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7114837.stm