Canucks take lead in World Cup Ref spray title!

[GIGS20]

Sounds like Morgan wasn't totally justified in all of his complaints, however I agree with the spirit of what he said anyway, Jonathan Kaplan is not a referee's bootlace and is a discredit to the game.

Good to hear that he had a better than usual match though, actually having some justifications for some of the ludicrous decisions he makes on the field.

I wonder if HE likes Lote?

[Ecky]

Ecky, how often in your career would you have ended a match in the 83rd or 84th minute, not counting a stoppage for a major injury (neck etc) or playing out consecutive "after the siren" penalties?

In my career...stop it! Now you're making me feel like I'm some sort of guru who has refereed at the highest level for about 20 years

Firstly, all my refereeing has been here in the west. (apart from two games in Sydney when I was over there for work back in 1999) This refereeing has been for 9 seasons in total. I haven't checked, but I reckon I am in a very small minority of refs who learned their craft solely in WA. Oh yeah, all my playing was done here in WA too, except a WA U/16s tour of Sydney & Adelaide.

While I am currently ranked in the top 10 refs here in Perth - #7 as at GF day - I have refereed the vast majority of this career in 2nds and U/19 (So there is no injury/stoppage time). 4 1st grades and growing, barring injury.

Anyoo, It is not uncommon for the ball to remain live for a few minutes - probably 2 to 3 - after time has elapsed. Remember that play goes on until the ball next becomes dead. i/e it is knocked on, or into touch or grounded in-goal. A penalty or free kick does not make the ball dead, so play goes on. If the team elects for a scrum instead of taking the kick, then the scrum is to be completed, even if it takes several resets.

It happens more than you might think in community rugby, but remember that no-one can see a bloody great clock counting down. Although if you set your stopwatch when the ref starts the half then you'll have a good idea when time is up - in all grades except 1st grade. And we are under instructions that, if ours is not the last game of the day, it must finish 5 mins before the next game is due to start, so sometimes a half is shortened solely on that basis.

[Ecky]

Of course, it goes both ways, there are a lot of trys called back for knock-ons etc...that may have gone undetected without the video.

Maybe it's a case of the referee not asking the right question again. It's my understanding that if he had asked "is there any reason not to award the try" then it doesn't matter if the video does not see the grounding because all they are looking for is conclusive evidence it wasn't a try.

It's worth pointing out here that the TMO can only rule on things that happen in the in-goal area. This starts at the goal line and ends at the dead ball line. If there was a knock on in the act of scoring - or rather grounding the ball - then the TMO can call it. If the knock on occurred before the line then the TMO can't comment on it. Even if the question "is there any reason not to award the try" is asked.

Also remember that the TMO does not have to just say "yes" or "no"; they can provide an explanation of what they saw in as many words as is needed - without going overbaord of course. That question is good because it is so open. There are all sorts of potential issues of the ref asks "can you check the grounding" as the only question. Using the Canadian non-award as an example, there was no way a TMO could check that grounding.

[Burgs]

It is my understanding oh guru that originally the Ref had to specify exactly what he required checking with the TMO and it was only after a couple of seasons that they started being allowed to ask for "any reason I can't"?

[shasta]

How often do we read about the semantics in these discussions between the match officials? For mine, this is pathetic. Either you use the available technology totally or you leave it completely up to the referee. There have to be guidelines, no ruling on forward passes, only to review the last phase of play etc. You also have to have a workable understanding for "inconclusive" placing of the ball.

The RL way seems OK. "Can you check the grounding for me? I have an opinion." - leads to the TMO referring it back as "REF"S CALL" when the grounding and/or "held up" are not visible on tape. But even with those systems in place there's still plenty of contentious rulings. Nature of the beast.

[Ecky]

It is my understanding oh guru that originally the Ref had to specify exactly what he required checking with the TMO and it was only after a couple of seasons that they started being allowed to ask for "any reason I can't"?

Well, yes, that was what I was trying to point out. Clearly not very well

Which was why I mentioned the bit about just asking about the grounding.

And why I mentioned that "any reason I can't" is a really open question and really non-specific.