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Thread: Western Force V Waratahs Saturday 15th July 5.45pm

  1. #166
    Player vulcan's Avatar
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    i have watched the game 3 times as well as being there you can only play what is in front of you and on that performance the tards never left Sydney but watching the Kiwi teams i am glad the Brumbies r in the finals as Aussie rugby isnt up to it with the leaders we have

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  2. #167
    Champion valzc's Avatar
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    In a way it would have been a much more entertaining game if it had been the Hurricanes instead of the Turds. The complete lack of spirit, fight and attitude by the Tahs pretty much spelt a no gamer. The way the Force played out of their skins and everything clicked, playing the Canes would have been a smasher! They weren't that far off when they played the Canes(but we know what happened there), what a win that would've been?

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  3. #168
    Senior Player andrewg's Avatar
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    Ruck Involvements – Force v Waratahs

    What a treat it was to sit in the rain and watch this game and the theatre around Hodgo’s last hurrah.
    It was just as enjoyable to relive the moment to collect the ruck data.

    Fantastic result for the Western Force and I’d rather consider this the first game of 2018 rather than the last game of 2017.
    The body language, even before the opening whistle, indicated that the Waratahs hadn’t turned up for this game.
    There was a very accurate prediction from muffy on the match preview on G&GR: “These are two different changing rooms, the Force can't wait to get on the field and stay there, while the final whistle can't come soon enough for the Tahs”.

    The Force played a NZ style of rugby. They didn’t want the ball as it was better to give it to the Tahs and let them make a mistake or get penalised. Cohesive, fast support play was sustained even in the wet conditions. The effort was to keep the ball moving – unsettling the Waratahs.

    When have we seen the Force run in tries from broken play the way they did in the wet?

    We’ve seen the Force provide quick, strong support in glimpses this year but never sustained for 80 minutes.

    There’s no doubt the lads were motivated to give Hodgo a big send-off.
    The fantastic thing is the whole squad now knows that they can play like this against a side which had 10 Wallabies in its starting XV.
    Self-belief is a wonderful thing
    .


    It would be good to know what led Hodgo to make his comment about the "Waratahs not getting much for their additional $2 Million in player payments (Wallaby top-ups). Berry knows what was said. The Waratahs players didn't appear too impressed with Hooper's sledging.

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    The Force averaged 272 Total Ruck Involvements (TRIs) per game in 2017 (Range 193 – 337).
    163 TRIs is the lowest by a big margin.

    The Force has averaged 47 Defence Ruck Involvements (DRIs) in 2017 (Range 24-75).
    38 TRIs is close to the numbers against the Brumbies, Crusaders (L) and Lions (L) but about 50% more than the DRIs against the Sharks (L), Hurricanes (L) and Reds (W).

    Hodgo, Coleman and Meakes were the standouts at the breakdown.
    Hodgo & Meakes had 40% of the DRIs.

    They were also the lead tacklers: Hodgson 19; Coleman 14; Meakes 11.

    Best ball carriers: DHP – 10 carries/80 m; Newsome – 6/68; Rona – 6/59; Naisarani – 7/54.



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    Force 40:11 Waratahs was a fantastic score line considering Possession was 50:50 and Waratahs had 58% of the Territory.

    Force made 120 of 137 tackles – 88%; Waratahs 78 of 96 – 81%.

    Leading tacklers for the Waratahs: Hooper & Wells – 7.
    Leading ball carriers for the Waratahs: Folau – 12/109; Foley – 13/88; Hooper – 11/44.

    Hooper and Dempsey had 22% of the Waratahs DRIs.

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    The Ruck Involvements show no increased effort by the Waratahs in the 2nd half.

    Ongoing ruck efforts by Hodgson, Coleman and Ross H-P, and Hardwick off the bench, were enough to nullify the Waratahs at the breakdown.

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  4. #169
    Senior Player andrewg's Avatar
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    Waratahs Front Row and Force Backs outworked their counterparts at the breakdown.
    Waratahs showed a more even distribution of ruck workload across the main player groups.



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    Force Backs had 47% of the Force’s DRIs.
    Meakes 8; Rona 3; Brache 3.



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    Force won 48 of 50 rucks – 96%.
    Waratahs won 73 of 78 rucks – 94%.

    Force showed strong support for their ball carriers – averaging 2.5 support players per ruck.
    For 52% of Attack Rucks the Force committed 3 or more support players

    Waratahs averaged only 2.2 support players per ruck.



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    Both teams were standing off “D” rucks – the Force more so.
    In the wet conditions the Force were more inclined to maintain their defensive line and out-tackle the Waratahs with nearly 50% more tackles.

    Only TPN and Rona earned clean TOW for the Force.

    Clark, Horwitz & McDuling earned clean TOW for the Waratahs.

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  5. #170
    Senior Player andrewg's Avatar
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    Update - Aussie Open Side Flankers - After Round 17

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  6. #171
    Champion valzc's Avatar
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    Not forgetting Jono"s sprint down the field. How often do we see Foley or Quade making those run metres these days?

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  7. #172
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    Don't forget Billy's beautiful counter ruck which lead to a beautiful turn over! It was gorgeous!

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  8. #173
    Champion SinBin's Avatar
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    And not forgetting the 16th man (crowd) effort which lead to the 43rd minute tight head try by Hodgo.

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  9. #174
    Player chiraag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post
    Update - Aussie Open Side Flankers - After Round 17

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    What does TOC stand for again Andrew?
    Also, has Hodgo not conceded a penalty all year?!?

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  10. #175
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    The Bronze Star of Faith
    Turnover Conceded?

    Hodgo also listed as equal top try scorer out of OSFs Surely that is another nail in the coffin for the non-traditional flanker who avoids the dirty work and spends all his time in the centres?

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    Last edited by GIGS20; 18-07-17 at 15:06.
    C'mon the

  11. #176
    Senior Player andrewg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiraag View Post
    What does TOC stand for again Andrew?
    Also, has Hodgo not conceded a penalty all year?!?
    Turn Over Conceded (as per Giggs).

    I thought that he was pinged on Saturday night but it may not have been him as it has yet to make any of the stats that are available on line.
    Even if it was 1 - it's the only one and the stat would be 0.1.
    Clearly it was his adjustment to the new rules and it's shown in his reduced TOW esp compared to his numbers last year. (1.2 TOW/game)

    I use the Vodapcom App as they have proved most reliable over the past 3-4 years.

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  12. #177
    Player chiraag's Avatar
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    So hodgo and Hardwick concede more turnovers than they win? That doesn't seem great. Are those turnovers conceded from dropped ball, etc?

    Does TOW include penalties the opposition concedes due to the OSF forcing then to hold on, which is probably more likely than a straight pilfer?

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  13. #178
    Senior Player andrewg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    Turnover Conceded?
    Hodgo also listed as equal top try scorer out of OSFs Surely that is another nail in the coffin for the non-traditional flanker who avoids the dirty work and spends all his time in the centres?
    Hodgo was quoted as the top try scorer for a Western Force Forward not from all OSF.
    I would think that Hooper has scored more tries in his SR career. (but I'll check)


    Quote Originally Posted by chiraag View Post
    So hodgo and Hardwick concede more turnovers than they win? That doesn't seem great. Are those turnovers conceded from dropped ball, etc?

    Does TOW include penalties the opposition concedes due to the OSF forcing then to hold on, which is probably more likely than a straight pilfer?
    As far as I understand TOC does include not releasing but not handling errors (as that is a separate stat.)
    As you can see - most of these OSF make ~2 Handling Errors per game.

    TOW do not include the opposition ball carrier getting pinged for "not releasing".
    A TOW is a clear regaining of possession from a ball that has been released at the ruck - gaining clean possession and allowing play to continue. All else is a Forced Penalty which actually stops play.
    The new rules make it harder to get TOW. (as shown by the average stats 2017 v 2016.)

    I can find no stats on attributing "not releasing" to particular individuals.
    I've tried to gather the stat myself but unfortunately it's not always clear.
    The player Fox may attribute put the carrier under pressure MAY not be the one who actually did.
    The camera angles and coverage are simply not good enough to make the call.
    Too often Fox use the wide camera angle/overview which is totally useless for stats gathering as it's often difficult to even recognise the players involved - let alone who has the main impact.

    I try and make the best of the data that is readily available.
    The clubs pay for more comprehensive data which is made available with hours of the completion of each game and completely available the next day.
    They pay a lot for this service.
    If you wish to know more then have a chat with Damo at the Force.

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  14. #179
    Champion sittingbison's Avatar
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    Yay I'm home tomoz from Cunderdin, can finally change my avi after all these years

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    The long sobs of autumn's violins wound my heart with a monotonous languor

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