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[Piston]

Regarding the tackle/maul discussion, most questions have been answered, but here is my 2 cents worth.

As mentioned if the ball carrier goes to ground (i.e. one knee touches the ground) then the tackler needs to release him and ball. If defender rips ball from ball carrier before he goes to ground, then play on.

Now with maul there are a few interesting and confusing situations, depending on different scenarios.

1. Ball carrier gets held up and maul forms (Macabe style). Ball carrier tries to go to ground and put his knee onto the ground, still hanging onto the ball by both ball carrier and defender. Ball carrier needs to release the ball. If not PK for holding on.

2. Maul formed and all players go to ground. No one have to release or roll away. Unplayable, scrum to team not in possession of ball when maul formed.

3. Maul formed and players and ball go to ground, but at least 1 player from both sides are on their feet, over the ball contesting for the ball. We now have a ruck! All ruck laws apply (roll away, release etc.) So a maul can in fact turn into a ruck!

The IRB made a clarification on this in 2011.

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?dom...arification=83

[RugbyRef]

And the way I'm reading it, if he stays the ball carrier, the instant somebody makes contact with him, it becomes a maul and he can't be grounded without risking a penalty for collapsing.

Therefore he could turn and face the rest of his forwards and walk backwards over the line, ready to pass the ball back as soon as he gets a whack in the kindeys or score a try if he doesn't.

Sounds simple until you try it in a game!

No, ball carrier can be tackled, but has to be done straight away. If any delay, then the maul has formed (See the Law Clarification I quoted).

Not called the thinking man's game for no reason. And with all this that we have to know and rule on in an instant in the game, and all the uncertainty of law that most spectators, players & most certainly commentators, think they know but actually have wrong, you can see why we are never going to be in a good situation with the decisions we make.

But then we all do it for the love of the game.

[Ralto]

Team throwing the ball in cannot form a maul without the participation of the opposition, so them gathering around the catcher and proceeding forward is not a maul until the oppo binds onto it.

Technically, therefore, if the non-throwing team chooses not to bind on, their players can come around behind that pod and go for the ball from the "other" side as there's no offsides.

C'mon you coaches - train for that one and let's get some different action going!

Italy have been laying off lineouts and using the "no offside" for years.

If no opposition join in, and the catching team "bind" up, and shuffle the ball to a player at the rear while moving forward - they are either offside, or constitute a form of flying wedge - both illegal these days - yes?

[Burgs]

So long as you are consistent Sir, that's what most punters are after at amateur matches.
Watched a PSA 1st XV match the other day and the "Ref" was clearly throwing darts at the Law Book.
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[RugbyRef]

Phew, I've not ref'd any PSA yet. Lol
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[Ecky]

Italy have been laying off lineouts and using the "no offside" for years.

If no opposition join in, and the catching team "bind" up, and shuffle the ball to a player at the rear while moving forward - they are either offside, or constitute a form of flying wedge - both illegal these days - yes?

Yes.

I'd say obstruction rather than offside, but offside is still a good call.

Seems the Italy tactic might not be all that successful - I don't recall them winning the 6 Nations in recent times. Or ever....

[RugbyRef]

It's was what they used when they were Minnows. Clever Rugby.

The Obstruction is when they join the head of the non-maul, as they can't reach the ball carrier, the no offside allows them to run around the back and tackle the ball carrier at the back, who then won't release as he thinks they're offside and they get a PK which is now 5m closer to the posts.

Mallett was a very astute tactician! Probably one of the first to fully utilise the quirks in the laws to his own gain!

[GIGS20]

No, ball carrier can be tackled, but has to be done straight away. If any delay, then the maul has formed (See the Law Clarification I quoted).

Even if players from the attacking team are bound to him?

[GIGS20]

So long as you are consistent Sir, that's what most punters are after at amateur matches.
Watched a PSA 1st XV match the other day and the "Ref" was clearly throwing darts at the Law Book.
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You were lucky......have you not been to a match where the ref was giving penalties "because you're not playing for Hale" yet!

We got Coops for our firsts against Guildford and nearly took the match, giving away only three penalties for the game, we're normally in the teens! The boys loved the way he managed the match.

There's a good reason why he's the best ref in WA!

[Ralto]

Yes.

I'd say obstruction rather than offside, but offside is still a good call.

Seems the Italy tactic might not be all that successful - I don't recall them winning the 6 Nations in recent times. Or ever....

Italy have improved which is the most important thing, instead of getting whacked every week, they introduced a little innovation - a little like Japan did all those years ago with the tap free kick.

[Ralto]

Refs also review their DVD's, so any wrong calls can be reviewed and the ref see how they can avoid making the same issue again.

Really, I saw one on Saturday that will most probably shoot himself after watching his effort on Saturday, then again, if he missed it on the day, he'll miss it on the replay. I'll happily supply examples every now and then if I have a cam handy, or get a match video of someone. I think everyone should.

[Sprogrugby]

Really, I saw one on Saturday that will most probably shoot himself after watching his effort on Saturday, then again, if he missed it on the day, he'll miss it on the replay. I'll happily supply examples every now and then if I have a cam handy, or get a match video of someone. I think everyone should.

Ralto, can you give us the fixture (so if is our game we can review a bit closer !). Cheers
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[Sprogrugby]

You could always include a time from the LMSC clips they put on TWF if you feel that strongly. Not all refs are on TWF and obviously there is no obligation to respond - all in the name of mutual understanding
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[Ralto]

Ralto, can you give us the fixture (so if is our game we can review a bit closer !). Cheers
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Happy to do so, who are you?

[RugbyRef]

Makes no difference who we are, we'll know who did the game and can pass the info on if it's not one of us on TWF.

We like to maintain anonymity so we don't get drawn into requests to justify our calls on weekends, or debates about why we did what in specific games.

It's better this way.
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