Cams Column - Post 3N5

[BLR]

Wish the Aussies had a similar War Dance - stumbling to the bar or BBQ wouldn't cut it though - prehaps an Abbo rain dance would be more appropriate - wish the team facing the hakka where allowed to challenge in some way - it would add to the tradition and make the whole spectacle less one sided.

Stand up to the haka by screwing the mics they have in the middle of the teams atm and do a France, stand right up to them and take the challenge like men.

Abbo rain dance wouldn't be appropriate, it isn't representative of our nation. A rendition of 'Working Class Man' or 'Khe Sanh' however.....

[welshrugbyfan]

Personally I think players should just stand there and face it and give it the respect it deserves. Can't recall the name of the English Hooker who had balls the size of melons who would go nose to nose with them as they did it. Or you can wimp out totally, give it the cold shoulder Campo style and pull grass out of the ground down at full back.

YouTube - Newport beat the All Blacks check out this little ditty. In 1963 the All Blacks went on tour and won every game on tour, except one. They were beaten by my club side Newport RFC. A team of local Newport boys knocking off an undefeated touring All Black side. Shows the Haka before the game, we come back with our own tradition of singing "Bread of Heaven" during the game. Whatever lifts a team is good. The Haka works for the Kiwis and Hymns and Arias work for the Welsh. Swing Low works for the Poms, but the Wallabies need something the crowd can really use to ignite the players. A song about a sheep stealer isn't it.

[Flamethrower]

A sheep thief who tops himself.

Inspirational stuff. Sure to light the fire

[laura]

Atleast some of today's All Blacks show a little more passion. Original Haka is the way to go though, that Haka is the one with the history.

The Haka is all part of playing against the All Blacks. Yes, Australia needs something, and it may have a little to do with my Grandad bringing me up on Banjo Patterson's poems, but I like Waltzing Matilda. It means a lot to a lot of people and stirs up emotion, in all honesty though, I dont think it really does the job of amping the boys up.

Bring on a bit of ACDC!!

[GIGS20]

It's been done since 1884 at rugby matches and should stay.

Go onto the All Blacks site and check out the haka explained video, it is a great video and will make you really understand the origins of it.

I know the history of it mate.....and I respect the history of it, it's not the history I'm complaining about it's the insistence of the AllBlacks to turn it into something it's not.

You DON'T make up your own haka if you're a pasty white fella who is about to run out on a rugby field. You make up a haka if you're a Maori who is about to step into a battle and face your own mortality!

[BLR]

Wow, nice video, I love the Haka at the start, can really see how it has changed.

I think we need to overhaul the national anthem, bring in some Wagner-esque deep drums and atmosphere and bring some dramaticism into it. Classical music was made for national anthems and we need to explore this instead of what we have at the moment, it surely doesn't inspire and pump up like Le Marseille does for example.

Hell, even some of the lesser known African nations have anthems that follow this stream and sound far more better then our lightweight anthem. We surely can't have New Zealand having a better anthem then us! (the Maori part excluded as it is just a PR thing I'd suspect)

Then we can move onto 'game songs' which could solve itself if we construct a truely kick ass anthem that has 'singability' during games.

[NTT]

[QUOTE=GIGS20;156392]I know the history of it mate.....and I respect the history of it, it's not the history I'm complaining about it's the insistence of the AllBlacks to turn it into something it's not.[QUOTE]

Id say the media coverage insistence on getting cameras and microphones two inches from the faces of the players has made it something its not.

[Flamethrower]

Nearly every tribe has their own specific haka relevent to their land, traditions, culture and history.

And there's the killer blow.

[NTT]

yeah true .... might change that then. just answered my own question

[Flamethrower]

That is why the haka is a joke. There is no way a member of another tribe would be allowed to do someones else's haka.
I don't have a problem with it if it was just used by the Maori team.

The haka is just a little dance that no one can respond to. What a joke.
I think opposition teams should sing their national anthems and then set up to start the game, or walk of the field and strip off their track suits, have a drink and a last minute chat. Why should you have to stand there and get cold while a bunch of grown men (?) jump about wailing??

[jargan83]

Personally I think players should just stand there and face it and give it the respect it deserves

Doesn't deserve respect when it's made up as they go. What historical and cultural significance does the haka they did on Saturday hold??
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[welshrugbyfan]

Doesn't deserve respect when it's made up as they go. What historical and cultural significance does the haka they did on Saturday hold??
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Yeah I agree with you Jargs and Gigs, this new Haka should go. Even when I was a nipper I loved the Haka, the original one.

Every video you can find in black and white is of the original haka, that is rugby history and it should stay as the "Rugby" haka. When you put on the jumper that has been worn by men in the past surely you want to follow in their traditions, eg the baggy green cap to mention a boring sport (Niggle, Niggle Jargs). Wouldn't the AB's want to do the haka that players 100 years ago were doing, they all talk about wearing the black jumper that holds so much tradition.

[PerthGirl]

But how many of the AB's from 100 years ago were actually Maori? The team has always had white guys doing a Haka, most of them doing it badly as well. It is only in the last 5 years or so that they have put any feeling into it as can be seen on old footage. I'm sure I read somewhere that the new Haka was created to have more of a Pacific Island input rather than specifically Maori to reflect the makeup of the team. There are many haka's but the new one has been written specifically for the All Blacks

[welshrugbyfan]

But how many of the AB's from 100 years ago were actually Maori? The team has always had white guys doing a Haka, most of them doing it badly as well. It is only in the last 5 years or so that they have put any feeling into it as can be seen on old footage. I'm sure I read somewhere that the new Haka was created to have more of a Pacific Island input rather than specifically Maori to reflect the makeup of the team. There are many haka's but the new one has been written specifically for the All Blacks

The first touring New Zealand tour were called the New Zealand native team and all of them were maori except four that was in 1888/89. Not sure about the 'originals' in 1905 who were the first touring team to be known as the All Blacks. They all look very white however.

NZ won every game of this tour (33 matches) except one, they scored 868 points and had only 47 scored against them. Guess who beat them? Bloody Wales of course, very very controversial game where Robbie Deans Great? at least Grandfather was supposed to have scored a try that was disallowed due to the slow running referee. Aparently the Welsh forwards pulled him back and by the time the ref got there he was short.

Robbie's grandfather the try scorer died very young. In 1983 his brother got a message to his great nephews Robbie and his brother Bruce who both went on to play for the All Blacks and told the boys before he died that he was at the game and had seen his brother score the try back in 1905. Great rugby history story.

This is what I like about rugby, in 1905 someone fought for the number whatever jumper the same way that todays players fight to wear the whatever number they wear today.

The new haka or "Kapa o Pango" is more specific to the rugby, with the last lines meaning All Blacks, Silver Ferns. It took about a year to come up with and had a lot of input from experts in the Maori culture.

I just like the fact that the original one has been done for so long. My maori friends tell me it is by no means an insult for white New Zealanders to do it.

[Woody]

All the 1st XV High School teams have their own hakas. Very often it is the highlight of the game, one team starts and generally the reply comes before the first finishes. Tests played between NZ and Island nation (and the Sevens) have opposing hakas. Often these end up right on half way with a bit of pushing and shoving.

A haka up close is a powerful thing, however I do believe at times we overdo it.