Perth Gold vs Perth Kiwi

[beige]

I think a previous thread had the Perth Gold v Eastwood match as this Sunday. That's changed then I take it?

[The InnFORCEr]

I copied that from RugbyWA site.

[beige]

Throw in the Force A fixtures and it's a busy few weeks.

[SBW]

Perth Gold had first pick on players.
Perth Gold had been training since the end of the 2011 season.
2 of the 3 trys scored by the gold were from pass intercepts.
Perth Kiwis had a total of 1 1/2 hours training with each other.
What should really be asked, is how could a team that is the "best of club rugby" and been training twice a week for 4 months be beaten.
Maybe there is something wrong with the system and the coaching they are receiving and what is deemed to be the best??

[theforceguy]

SBW it sounds like you know a lot so maybe you can answer the following:

1 How many of the Perth Kiwi players are new to Perth? ( How many did not play in the Perth comp last year)
2. How many of these players are working men supporting families and do not have the time to train with the Perth Gold.
3. How many of these players are eligible to play for the Western Force?

[fulvio sammut]

Isn't it great that there are so many new talented players in the WA comp.

How many are home grown?

Sadly, not many.

For the sake of a first rate competition, isn't it time to stop bagging clubs who up the ante by importing players who can cut the mustard?

[theforceguy]

Isn't it great that there are so many new talented players in the WA comp.

How many are home grown?

Sadly, not many.

For the sake of a first rate competition, isn't it time to stop bagging clubs who up the ante by importing players who can cut the mustard?

No one is bagging the clubs importing players. I think that importing players is the way to develop the home grown players, I wish we could import even more. It lifts the standard of the game and creates a bigger spectator spectacle. You only need to do this for a couple of years and it will have a snowball effect on player numbers, player skills, and a higher standard of the game at all levels. The moment you have that you will automatically have more funds as well so it is a win win.

I only answers SWB's question relating to if the wrong players were in the Gold squad. I am sure that we will see some of these these imported players in the Perth Gold if stay around after the season and if they are really good enough and eligible maybe even in the Force A and higher.

[Burgs]

Fulv: Arguably, doesn't "upping the ante" by bringing in players rather than investing in the homegrown variety also perpetuate the problem? Short term gain for long term same.

TFG: "A couple of years" seems to me to have been 15+ so far?

[theforceguy]

Burgs
In the past there was no real path way for these players to go any further than just playing club rugby lots are changing even with the ARU decreasing funding to RUGBY with more than $1mil this year.

Just looking at the quality of the rugby that was played on Thursday night by the Force A and also on Saturday night by Perth Gold and Perth Kiwi is enough to show me that rugby in the West is improving with leaps and bounds. the skill level was very high on both teams considering the fact that the Perth first grade comp has not even started yet, so not a lot of time with ball in hand for those boys.

The initiative of having these games are a brilliant idea and I even heard rumours of extending this to a mini try nations series in the years to come.

[Burgs]

I'm not sure that answers the question though?
Players have been bought for RWA level for far longer than further career opportunities have been an option.

[SBW]

SBW it sounds like you know a lot so maybe you can answer the following: 1 How many of the Perth Kiwi players are new to Perth? ( How many did not play in the Perth comp last year) 2. How many of these players are working men supporting families and do not have the time to train with the Perth Gold. 3. How many of these players are eligible to play for the Western Force?

Hi Force Guy I will your questions to the best of my knownledge.
1, 3 new to Perth of that 2 recruited by clubs 1 transfered with work from Sydney
2, I know there are constraints on players being able to train however why should they change why not the system change to have this talent availible and enhance the system.
3, I think around the 80%mark would be, also there would be more players who played for the Force A and Perth Gold in there last two games who are not entitled to play for the Force than played for the Kiwis.

I know of 3 players who have not played a club game and have been in Perth for under a month and another 5 who played last year but are Kiwi or irish who have run out for Force A and Gold.

I say to you dont kick whats is raising the standard of club rugby, but why is the local talent (and there is alot of talent out there) not coming thru or giving up and not making the step up to senior rugby or Force?

The Acdemy has been running for several years now 2 maybe 3 players making a run on for the Force if this was a buisness having KPIs its a failure.
Maybe the systems need to change to accomadate needs of all not the few, then maybe the Junior systems will be a feeder to the Senior clubs then the seniors to the Gold and Force and we will not need to import eastern stater players to make up the numbers in the Force and intern senior clubs will not be relient on imported players and be able to invest that money back into juniors.

Hope that answers some of your questions and if you have anymore please feel free to ask.

Regards SBW

[theforceguy]

definitely not kicking anything. Like I have said previously the standard is definitely higher than 5 year ago when I first got involved with rugby in WA and a big part of the improvement is due to the imported players from all over the world.
Rugby will just get stronger, more an more local talent will be included in the professional rugby programs.

Believe me there are a big number of local talent coming through the junior ranks currently and we hope to see most of these boys currently U15-U20 in the Force squad in a few years from now. Remember these boys did not even have decent training facilities until late last year.

And yes I agree maybe the system needs to be fine tuned to accommodate development of more local players.

[DinkyDi]

All in all the Gold V Kiwi game was a cracker. The issues surround the selection policies and coaching at this level - on paper the Perth Gold side has significant talent but were out muscled by the Kiwi pack - the Gold coach did not even know of half the Kiwi team and nor did RG who was there to present the prize - I hope that the star players from Kiwi, especially in the pack are elevated to Gold for the rest of the season to strengthen the team especially V Eastwood etc.

There is the issue of commitment though and this is a constant in "State" teams - guys are very happy to train 1.5 hours and have a run but are not willing to commit to regular training due to work, family or just basic slackness. No matter how talented they are, you cant justify selection based on not turning up or rocking up for a run on the day. Herein lies the greatest issue to Perth rugby I feel.

[GAFFA]

Kiwi's claim Gold


By RugbyWA Media



Perth Gold v Perth Kiwi
RugbyWA’s representative side, Perth Gold, made their opening foray into battle in 2012 with a high quality and entertaining clash against fellow rep outfit Perth Kiwi at Pat O’Hara Reserve in Morley.

The match was a first between the sides with the Perth Kiwi’s being made up of New Zealanders who now call WA home while Perth Gold continued a long tradition in which the brightest talents from the Premier Grade and development squads earned their chance to wear the state colours.

There was no shortage of action from either side with Perth Gold holding a handy lead at the break before the Kiwi’s stormed back in the second half to claim the inaugural Mike Denton Cup 25-19. The match trophy was named in honour of Nedlands flyhalf and former Perth Gold representative Mike Denton who tragically passed away in 2011 while on holiday in Bali.

The New Zealanders were intent on making an impact from the outset and were the first to cross for five points. Perth Gold regathered and began to pressure the Kiwi defensive line to generate some good forward plays. Despite Gold’s dominance they were unable to capitalise on the opportunities until late in the first half when they scored three successive tries.

With a 14 point advantage at half time Perth Gold were in the box seat however the Kiwi’s increased their efforts at the breakdown and started to win quality ball from the tackle zone. Some great distribution from flyhalf Raa Wilson saw the Kiwi side attack the fringes and score three unanswered tries to hold a one point lead with five minutes to play.

Despite their best efforts the Perth Gold boys were unable to reign in their opponents and a try to the New Zealanders right on the final siren saw the final margin grow to six points.

Perth Kiwi flyhalf Raa Wilson, winger Benny Titoki, No 8 Pierre Roberts and Lock James Riddell impressed Perth Gold Coach Dwayne Nestor with their solid performances and have been invited to join the Perth Gold squad for their upcoming games.

http://www.westernforce.com.au/NewsE...9/Default.aspx

[SBW]

All in all the Gold V Kiwi game was a cracker. The issues surround the selection policies and coaching at this level - on paper the Perth Gold side has significant talent but were out muscled by the Kiwi pack - the Gold coach did not even know of half the Kiwi team and nor did RG who was there to present the prize - I hope that the star players from Kiwi, especially in the pack are elevated to Gold for the rest of the season to strengthen the team especially V Eastwood etc.

There is the issue of commitment though and this is a constant in "State" teams - guys are very happy to train 1.5 hours and have a run but are not willing to commit to regular training due to work, family or just basic slackness. No matter how talented they are, you cant justify selection based on not turning up or rocking up for a run on the day. Herein lies the greatest issue to Perth rugby I feel.

I find it very hard to believe that the Gold coach and RG do not know who these players are, as the have access to all player transfers to WA and all Senior club games played are videoed, I am sure it is part of their position description or KPIs they have, they are to reveiw games, watch games and know what players are in WA or potentialy coming to WA. As leaders of these programs it is their priority to know these facts, if they dont well people are not doing their jobs.

Again dont kick those on the outside, it maybe it suits only a small miniorty, look at ways of making change, think outside the box, and try and get more involved in the system, because it seems to me the system is not working, if we are missing all this quility.
As in life so it is with rugby there are all ways going to be talented people who are slack or cant be bothered.
So dont botherer with them move on, or maybe find out what makes them tick??????????????

This is not a pissing contest,
for me its about getting more players involved in all aspects from junior to senior to reps, to helpers in the clubs to coaches, mums and dads supporting their clubs and making WA a power house in Australia rugby.
I believe we have a thinking of what works for NSW and QLD will work here, we have had several years of that sort of thinking and its not working.
and I am not blaming WA Rugby wholely and solely we in club land need to change our thinking as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is blame to shear all round.
But while we blame and arse cover, then nothing will get done.

As Homer Simpson says "D'oh D'oh D'oh D'oh D'oh D'oh", make change dont keep hitting your thumb with a hammer!!!!!!!!!!!